Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by EzequielKees, May 29, 2020.
This sounds a bit like what I wanted to do, so it's good to see that someone does it, since who knows when I would. I can't suggest anything right now, I'll wait until there are demos available and can check if it has the stuff I would add or not. Well, there's something, but should go last on the list of priorities: a way to create stuff like cutscenes and demo gameplays.
What I will probably try to do if you release a demo of this is to create a custom level I've been designing. I'm not exactly trying to make it for a future fangame, but it would be good enough to test your tool.
Thanks a lot!! Out of curiosity, do you already have the art ready?
Now I am creating the tile editor (Collision and animations).
I hope to launch a download version soon. (Today, the engine still doesn't save the zones, that's why I can't launch it.)
For that level? Partially, there's a lot of decorations missing to give variety to tiles that repeat too much, and haven't finished level design so I might need to make a few extra blocks. There's also a single exclusive gimmick designed and still no badnik graphics.
Are you using block mappings like the 16-bit games? I would, and add a collision mask "maker", presets won't cover every option. Sorry if you talk about this in the video, I saw it muted and I didn't get very much from it.
How would you do a collision maker?
The collision is currently implemented through block assignments. Each block represents a transparent image with opaque areas (Fuchsias in this case). Opaque areas represent collision, transparent pixels do not. There is no limit here, you can create the block assignments you want (eg with photoshop or GIMP).
Interesting because there's more to it than just a shape mask, like prebaked angles etc (multiple per block iirc). All depends how you're doing things in gameplay of course, however if you are just relying on painted images and collecting collision angles dynamically, there's less need to stick strong to tiny structured tiles. I guess I'm just asking what your plans are :P
How much of this is done? Is it just an editor at this time or is there already a playable aspect?
It's looking nice on a superficial level at the very least.
For now everything is under construction. Including collision logic and player. So I still can't provide a download, but, I estimate, it won't be long before I can launch it.
Yes, yes, I know. Collision blocks automatically generate their angle, but the user can change it anyway. Also, each block is not limited by a fixed size. Each of them can be resized.
Everything is still under construction, so these comments are very useful to me.
Block mappings group 8x8 graphic tiles into a 2x2 tile map that also includes the collision map and the angle for that chunk, so the collision maps are 16x16 grids with a sequence of heights where the solid "pixels" are. The 2x2 tile maps along with the collision grid make the 16x16 chunks that are then arranged on a grid of either 16x16 or 8x8 blocks (depending on the game) that are usually placed on a editor like the one playSEGA had; those are essentially the 256x256 or 128x128 graphic blocks that you'll see on the sheets stored in the spriter's resource sections for classic Sonic games and hacks. S1 and SCD use the bigger ones, and the rest of the games use the smaller ones. What you would do on a collision mask editor would be to insert the values for those heights on the 16x16 chunks plus their angle if needed, and allow the stored chunks, both preset or custom, to be picked when creating blocks for the level layout.
NEXT DAY EDIT: Forgot to mention the 16x16 chunks also store solidity type for both layers (such as for loops).
If you're still taking feature suggestions, I thought of something just a few minutes ago. It's not so much a "feature" as much as a "toggle-able restriction", really.
Almost every guide for a Whatever-Maker tool makes the recommendation to limit yourself to two or three level gimmicks at most, since a lot of new level-designers will just throw in everything and the kitchen sink too, making the level feel unorganized or cluttered. What about an optional toggle, where you can pick a limited number of premade gimmicks and put them in the editor where they're more easily accessed? For instance, if I wanted to do a Mania-styled remake of Endless Mine, I would set the toggle to three types of gimmick, and pick out the Quartz Quadrant conveyor belts, the earthquake + rising lava/ground bit from Hill Top and Marble Garden, and maybe the screw-elevators from Metropolis. Those would stay in the object window, while everything else would be hidden. Users who feel that they know better and can exercise self-restraint without help can turn the feature off and the entire collection of pre-made objects is readily available.
(Yeah, I was listening to an Endless Mine remix on YouTube and the idea came to mind.)
Thank you so much all for the comments. I'm currently writing the collision system, and taking your feedback I'm also implementing a collision editor and creator, as customizable as possible (with the necessary angles of course (as Lapper mentioned)). In a few days I think I will have something to analyze!
I have a question for the community:
When they create a tile (I'm talking about a 16x16 pixel piece), and they want it to be animated...
How do you export those animations?
Because I'm in that part of development, adding animation support.
Do you create a sequence of images (.png or .jpg)? GIF animations? or others?
Thanks in advance
I might be wrong, not being the most experinced around, but, if it's really tiles, it's usually some palette rotation, with other animations being objects, I think. of course, that's when talking about oldschool games, you can do what you want as long as you respect the tile mapping you implemented. As I said before, the 16x16 tiles are in fact a grid of four 8x8 tiles on said classic games, so you'd have to work with that size if you're mimicking that system. You could also ask about animated tiles on the basic questions thread of the hacking section of the forum, explaining what you need the answer for (a fangame and not actual hacking).
Thank you. I am working to make the engine as close to the original as possible, but obviously, there are things that I don't want to implement in the same way since there are many other ways to do the same and better, one of them is the palettes. For example, the animations in the engine are through a spritesheet or a gif animation. For changing palettes at runtime, I'm thinking of a post process.
They just asked about this kind of thing on the thread I suggested and it basically involved a deep knowledge of how the machine worked, so I don't think it's even a good choice to do it that way on a modern computer. Alternatively, you could ask how Mania engine does that, since it will be closer to what you want to do.
And that's the furthest I can go with helping, your last post already got beyond my understanding. :specialed:
Sorry for the delay. At the latest on Tuesday I will upload a preliminary version of the engine. More than anything so that they know it and suggest things (in addition to seeing translation errors hahaha (my main language is Spanish))
The spanish version is OK for me. XD
And don't worry about delays, real life is out there and you're doing this from your own goodwill, so there's no deadlines. You could disappear for months and no one would blame you.
Here I leave the first very early (alpha) version of the engine.
This version only contains too basic stuff. Its use is only recommended so that they know the engine and suggest their ideas (or translation errors). Obviously, you still can't create games with it.
Features of this version:
Import of tiles and chunks (Be static or animated)
Basic player settings.
Presentation of the engine and its graphical interface.
Collision edition (In progress - Possibly removed)
Not playable yet, but you can start the zone and "see" it through the camera using the numeric keypad (see below)
The Editor is fully real-time and WYSIWYG
Once you download the file and run it, you will be asked where you want to extract the content from. Choose a location of your preference. Once the process is complete, go to that folder and run "Seek.Engine.exe":
Once the engine is open and to start using it, you must click on "Project"
Then, a dialog box will appear asking you which project you want to open (Select "Example.seek"):
Once you open it, you will see, at the top of the window, a purple area with the name of the project. Here is what project is currently open and you can access various shortcuts:
If you open a zone, you can already edit it with the editor. Just drag and drop what you want to edit:
The lower part of the window contains the "content" area, that is, here will be all the assets of your project (From art, objects, logic, etc.).
Each of them, for a better organization, are divided into categories, in which you have total control.
The next version of the engine will be focused on the changes you think there should be and on the collision.
My biggest goal these days is to find a way to automatically implement the collision (and to have all its rest, for example, angles) also be automatic.
The engine requires the .NET Framework 4.8 to be installed, if you don't have it, download it here.
You know, I will always be willing to answer questions and comments.
Does the music support other formats besides .wav? Because the annoying thing with WAV and FLAC is how they take up a lot of space unlike MP3, OGG, ETC
Separate names with a comma.