Sonic Retro's Wiki was how I found out about Sonic ROM Hacking all the way back 10 years ago, and, as far as I knew then, this was one of the golden resources for all things ROM hacking, as a general player. However, I couldn't get my mind off of this problem, and thought it a good idea to talk about it. This seemed the most fitting subforum for the subject; Staff can (and presumably will) correct me if I'm wrong. 20. If my counting is right, not even 20 were the ROM Hacks that made it to the Sonic Retro Wiki, ever since the 2018 revision of the Hack policy. That's a 6 year time span that saw a drought of ROM hacks, one that I fear doesn't at all correctly reflect the state of the community, and that has not really allowed the Sonic Retro Wiki to be a home to all of the mighty impressive projects that have come through in the past few years. The hackers won't put them on the Wiki, as they are outright denied such privilege by the standing Policy, and the existing editors won't put them on the Wiki, presumably because they have more important things to deal with than documenting the Sonic ROM Hacking Scene, which, mind you, I'm not saying I disagree with, in fact, I respect their efforts in documenting pretty much everything touched by the Retro family! This, however, doesn't take away the fact that there are tens of ROM Hacks that, in my opinion, really do deserve preservation, and Sonic Retro's Wiki could be one of the best places for it. But it's not like the average Joe can sit down and start making articles for everyone else's ROM Hacks: even with the time and willpower to do so, they still need permission from the hack creator to prepare an article on Sonic Retro about the ROM Hack, for, if that was not the case, Sonic Retro could just claim distribution rights to every Sonic ROM hack ever, with no chance to oppose a say, as per the disclaimer at the bottom of the Hack policy. So what to do of it? There's two ways that come to mind to address this issue. The first involves an ideal (to me) change to the hack policy, whereas the second is idealized around the existing policy, and requires no more than the currently expected Staff intervention. Changing the Policy I understand why it was done: I'm sure it was frustrating to see tens of lackluster and unnoteworthy ROM Hacks go through the reviewers' eyes. However, if not to outright reverse the 2018 revision of the Hack policy, I feel it would be nice to give asking ROM Hackers explicit permission to upload their own hacks on the Wiki, based on whether or not they can be trusted to deliver quality works that meet all other points of the existing policy. Some form of this appears to be given to the Tech Members, but it would be nice to extend this privilege to people who may be known for creating quality ROM hacking projects, but also don't happen to be Tech Members (unless creating quality projects is a way to become a Tech Member, in which case I feel there's a lot of people that could be promoted to this rank that currently aren't!) Of course, that would require Staff to actively vet asking ROM Hackers, which would, in some form, add extra work that may or may not be wanted. Expecting Staff to change the policy as laid above overnight would be too much of me, as I'm not really in a position to demand Staff to work in a way more favourable to me. Which is why I lay out an alternative route which will require hackers and editors' cooperation, while Staff reviews incoming ROM Hacks and articles as always. Working around the Policy For a hack to make it to the Wiki, it must meet the quality requirements that make it worthy of being on the Wiki, as well as not be brought in by the author. Which means volunteer editors will have to find hackers that want their hack on the Wiki. I would not be opposed to being one such editor myself: maintaining the Sonic Hacking Contest Wiki page has given me a grasp of the basics of Wiki formatting. I would have to figure out the more specific formatting, file naming conventions, and other Sonic Retro-specific rules, but that should require me no more than reading instructions. Anyone, seasoned or aspiring Wiki editor, can join in and write articles of existing ROM Hacks, provided permission from the hackers. Speaking of permission, I wouldn't mind this forum thread becoming a space for ROM Hackers to give permission for their hacks to be put on the Wiki! In fact, I will begin by doing so myself: Pretty straightforward: now people can have Wiki pages of my ROM Hacks made, if they really care! I just can't be the one, under the existing policy. It can, however, be me for other people's hacks! So, if you want your hack on the Wiki, you can say so here, and if an onlooking editor thinks you deserve it, you can have a page made! That will, of course, take onlooking editors: if none really come and look at this thread, then it kind of defeats the point of this entire forum post, which is why I pledged as potential volunteer for the cause. Otherwise, maybe I've lost the plot: maybe there's one or more underlying issues behind why people don't put Sonic hacks on the Sonic Retro Wiki anymore that I've overlooked: I would like this thread to be a place of discussion on the subject! As for why I'm at all making this thread, my end goal is to get the ROM Hacking section of the Sonic Retro Wiki up to date, and make it a more contemporary one-stop-shop for all things Sonic hacking, as it was for me back in my earlier adolescence.
I can't agree more with this. Not even the hacks winning SHC podium places are making it to the Wiki (you really can't get more noteworthy than that!), which means that something about the way adding hacks to the Wiki works isn't working correctly at all. I assume the intention behind disallowing people from submitting their own hacks was "if a hack is noteworthy enough to be added, it will be added by someone else". That assumption clearly did not hold. And with no new hacks being added to the Wiki, fewer and fewer ROM hackers care about the Wiki at all as a result, leading to the downward spiral we just found ourselves at the bottom of.
I feel like maybe since the Hacking Contest got archived as its own site, maybe the wiki mods felt less need to add an index of hacks, since most of them get entered there. A lot of stuff on the wiki feels like it needs updating really. I look at the bottom-of-page indexes for stuff like the How-To guides for example, and they lack entries that were added more recently. This could also drain interest in the wiki since it makes it seem like nothing new has been added in ages, which isn't exactly true.
I'm on board with this. I learned about Sonic ROM hacks through Youtube 7 years ago, in particular, AntDude and SpaceHamster's videos, which encouraged me to get into ROM hacking in the first place, and as I imagine many others as well. And in those videos, they covered a good chunk of what was available on the wiki. But we don't really see videos like that anymore (Well AntDude will still make one every couple SHC's or so, but that's about it) and I think part of that is a lack of new hacks on the wiki for them to make content. They aren't going to be bothered to scroll through forums for new content, and you can only build so much of a community off Yeth and fucking Sonic 1337 (Why is that of all things still on the wiki) for so long. Which, in turn, gives this outwards appearance that our community's stagnated since 2016. And to go with Gio here, I do think the policy should be changed regarding self-publishing hacks on the wiki, of course with checks and balances to prevent the metric ton of new age palette swaps that build their content off of tutorials. >_> Whether that's through mod pre-approval or tech member exemption, I'm fine with either way.
Not sure about you guys but for me it's because I feel anxious as fuck whenever I edit the wiki, like I'm about to go to jail because I dared to edit anything on the Sonic Retro wiki. Wouldn't be surprised if others were affected by that worry too, because otherwise I'd love to upload more of my work here. But it's like over the last decade or so the wiki steadily devolved from this flourishing place for everyone to share their cool hacking stuff to some freak-of-nature time capsule thing that doesn't know what time period it wants to fall into. And especially with a policy as demoralizing as outright deleting uploads, is it really a surprise we're in a drought? YOU ARE ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED FROM UPLOADING ANYTHING, so why would you? But I fail to see how a policy change will fix anything either way. Wikis aren't really that good for generalized showcasing of Sonic hacks (anymore), at least that's how I see it. Of course it's something else when a hack makes big waves and truly deserves a page, but let's be real here, when it comes to the wiki, the whole hacking side of things feels like it's somewhat stuck in the 00s. Uploading policies are one side of the coin, but I feel like the much bigger issue is simply how goddamn dusty it all is. Kilo already said it, if hacks like Sonic 1337 are there you can already tell what era the lists are in. Riddle me this, why would I as a newcomer ever browse through a badly organized list of hacks from up to two decades ago? Even IF the new golden nuggets made their way to the wiki, I still wouldn't really have any incentive to go there to find new hacks. Honestly, all I want is a public spin-off of the SHC website where people can upload their hacks year-round. Basically, SFGHQ but for hacks only. This will solve the accessibility problem while also drastically increasing visibility for the lurkers. Then have that content be curated in any way and we're done. tl;dr the wiki is a lost cause imo, better focus on modern alternatives
While I agree that a proper database would be easier to start up and maintain, rather than unfuckening the current state of the wiki, the wiki's been the go-to spot for ROM hacks for like 2 decades, and the general public will continue to go there, and continue to see that it's a decaying husk of hacks from the 00's that doesn't reflect our progress. So, somehow we'd have to convince wiki mods to take down the old hacks wiki and link everything to this new database, which I frankly don't see happening.
"suspiciously info.sonicretro inspired Wiki" for Sonic hacks and fangames could be really good!! That is, it would exist independently of Retro and likely would have its own color scheme, but, the concept would be for it to be the best possible equivalent of if it were feasible to get up to date the official Retro Wiki. Any teams and creators who would want to add personal touches and their own writing style and Easter Egg type content would be possible if it didn't have to match the Retro Wiki writing style.
I think part of the problem is that some of the hack pages, such as Sonic the Hedgehog Extended Edition and Sonic 3 Complete, feel too instructional/promotional rather than documentary. I feel like this gets in the way of creating an objective database of ROM hacks.
I used to edit the hacking guides on the wiki, and havent been able to do so since... maybe 2016? Have tried asking for help in the past. Said fuck it, and resorted to making my own wiki instead. The Sonic Retro wiki isn't what it once was, and it feels like the people in charge don't care anymore, which is saddening.
Very valid points are raised here but I feel this probably requires a response that's above my pay grade.
The wiki needs lots of technical work right now since there's quite a few things broken at the moment, so honestly it would be better to have someone make their own wiki or database website at this point. I would love to see more hacks added to our wiki here, after all we're the main site for Sonic rom hacking and I would have never discovered this community if it wasn't for Sonic Megamix. But at it's current state, I wouldn't bother honestly.
I just wanted to say that these are very valid points and I would hope that something could be worked out to increase the showcasing of many quality hacks and mods that were bountiful back in the day and still are today. Even if a few trusted people such as Giovanni and a few others here who have expressed interest could be given some sort of status to populate the wiki with notable works, Hacking Contest winners etc, it would probably help a lot as it is genuinely unfair that there have not been major updates. Such a project to populate the wiki with newer hacking and modding content could keep people occupied for most of the year. There is a situation where, for example, the SHC wiki page is being updated with the list of winning entries, yet there is no internal links to them, the only way to obtain most of them would be through the contest's vault section, which is still download only, although the entry descriptions did exist for the previous years' contest sites, which could be used to help populate future wiki pages for example, if they could be extracted for guidance. I think the issue has been, not just to do with stagnation (which is an issue that is not exclusive to Retro but other parts of the community for years - perhaps a subject not for here unless a lot of wounds want to be opened, mine included), but it probably hasn't helped that seeing how GameBanana practically has a lot of the modding content hosted these days, that some people may not have seen such a need to have it put on the wiki, as most people are being directed to there rather than other sources. And let's not forget how many want to rely on Discord as sources too which just is not doable. Again, not Retro-exclusive, or even community exclusive, but look at how many things on the internet that pop up and if you want to help make something, or you need guidance on stuff, you are told to go and join their Discord, rather than find what you are looking for on a public platform? I should mention that back when I ran that thing, a non-contest section of the site had been suggested internally a number of years ago, but there just wasn't the time back then to develop it as it would require a lot of major work. It's a shame because it certainly would have helped address some of the issues here, although nothing should stop the Retro wiki from being fixed up, if the policy can be revised with enough pressure to do so. Logistics and assistance from others (as it needed to cover all categories rather than just the one) were in the way of the non-contest section actually being made. I had even tried looking into a file manager kind of like what SFGHQ uses and similar to the old SSRG Repository (if anyone remembers those days) but it was too unstable to progress, so it ended up on the never ending wish list and subsequently put on ice. Regardless of what or where people choose to improve the showcase of hacks and mods (whether it's here or elsewhere, whatever works best), I hope it works out. I seem to recall someone making a hack database on SSRG that may be worth looking into as well. If there are people who can have the dedication to fixing the issues where it comes to visibility, it can help put things in a better direction and keep things fresh for years to come. I say that as someone who used to edit the wiki a lot many years ago, it gave me something to do for a while, although it pre-dated the policy put in place which is being mentioned, I didn't remember this policy being a thing.
The idea is collectively you come together and decide a page is worth making, and then you make a page - the intention wasn't to restrict that decision to certain groups. If there are ROM hacks that need pages... go forth and make the pages. The absolute worst thing you can do is sit and wait for pink badges or some theoretical authority on ROM hacks to make pages for you. This applies to all things - the wiki is just as much yours as ours, and you don't have to ask for permission to add content. And it doesn't matter if you make mistakes along the way - it usually takes seconds to clean up, and there are more active users on Sonic Retro able to take on those janitorial roles than in 2018. Don't worry about it - Mediawiki is a clunky piece of software (and it still is, if you were conscious we're running an older version). Also... that high barrier of entry secretly isn't that high. If you're unknown to the community, we would discourage you using the wiki as a personal file hosting service, be that uploading rubbish hacks or fan games, or making pages on your own personal projects. But if you've been around for years and your hacks have won awards, make pages and upload files - it's not a problem. I couldn't tell if you if every winning entry in a Sonic hacking contest needs a page, but it seems like a reasonable qualification for getting one. Probably the only reason this hasn't happened is because the current set of active editors haven't been paying close attention to the annual hacking contents - it's hard to be on top of everything. I know I'm not, but some of you are (!) And you can take that as a general rule - if something isn't on the wiki, it's not because we've ruled against making a page, it's because nobody's found the time to make that page. For me, my heart's with Sega Retro and solving gaming mysteries - I'm still around on Sonic Retro do sysop things, but I'm light touch on the actual content these days. And that's because that wiki should have a massive advantage of being attached to these forums, filled with people interested and knowledgeable on all sorts of Sonic topics, whereas on Sega (and especially NEC) Retro, there might be like, one person who's an expert in that field, and that only happened because they spent the time learning to become the expert. (You can watch that happen in real time in our Sega Channel topic - what's a "SuperPacket"? Nobody knows! (yet))
Again I would if I could. Can't even log in. Perhaps more inspection should be done with fixing the existing system by those in the know rather than putting the onus on other who either don't know how to fix what's wrong or don't know what's wrong in the first place.
Create a new account... I know you're not the only one with this problem, there are many in the same situation... and to remedy it, what many people have already done is to create a new account...
Yeah, you're right. I've wanted to do anything BUT that, but it seems that's the only viable option at this point. Maybe I'd need to anyway in order to have an account under my more recent username regardless.
