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Robotnik vs. Eggman

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Skywatcher, Jul 11, 2008.

Which name do you prefer/use/etc.?

  1. It's Dr. Robotnik, silleh. You needs an evil name to be evil. Yeesh!

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  2. Nah, it's Dr. Eggman. He looks like an egg for cripes sake!

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  3. Who ACTUALLY cares?

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  1. Tweaker

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    Localization makes it less right because it's... not right. I don't understand this question.

    When you establish several names for a single character and change them drastically throughout different regions, any semblance of uniformity or potential for familiarity on a global scale goes completely down the drain. Every single version of any given product with several localizations fails to establish any kind of singular presence; as such, every single country thinks their version is "right" and attempt to refer to it for factual accuracy when involving itself in any kind of factual claim. In a situation where there are several versions of a single product, the only one that can truly be considered "right" would be the original. This way, you have all of the titles, situations, labels, et al as the creator originally intended them. This is a huge problem with Dragon Ball's localizations in particular, wherein it's such a massive cultural influence that literally every country has its own version where they change them liberally. At the end of the day, the only one that you can look to for the most untainted experience is the original product. There's no other way to handle it.

    I'm not debating whether or not you can use Robotnik or Eggman to refer to the character. As I said in my last post, I don't care what you call him! But it is a fact that the original character was named Eggman, he was never anything but Eggman, and any occurrence to the contrary is localization and not in the original spirit of the character, let alone the original games or continuity in their country of origin. The cartoon adaptions, comics, et al are in their own little continuity, so it makes sense to refer to the character as Robotnik in those because that's the name he was originally designed in them. Get the picture? It's not about Japanese loyalty or anything like that—it's about accuracy.

    All of this Eggman crap may have changed circa-Sonic Adventure 2, but the part where he was called Eggman as a nickname was more localization. Do not refer to it as "proof" that he is called Eggman because it never actually happened in the original version of the game.

    I should note that even I occasionally use the name Robotnik to refer to the character; after all, it's what I grew up with! That doesn't make it anything less than localization, though. That's my entire point.

    Do I look like a gay walrus to you?

    I don't "march around"; I bring it up when it's relevant. And I don't see why I should accept them—even though I do—but I'm not going to call you an idiot for not doing so. That's your prerogative.

    I never said a single thing about the name having a bearing on the quality of the product. It doesn't! It's just a personal peeve of mine when things are arbitrarily changed without any good reason. This applies literally across the board, so don't feel like I'm targetting this incident specifically.

    Also, I am a fan of Pokémon and Mario. While I don't personally use those names to refer to the characters in question—after all, it's not my preference to—I acknowledge them as the original names of the characters and base my points on that fact. I was never trying to say that people are less right for using Robotnik; just that they were wrong by using that incident in Sonic Adventure as evidence that Eggman was a condescending nickname. Because it's not.
     
  2. Demi

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    Where is this quote from? This is bugging me.
     
  3. OSM

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    Oh christ, gay Rotor. I didn't want to remember that shit.
     
  4. Skeledroid

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    HIS NAME IS ROBERT PAULSEN!
     
  5. Shadic

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    What about Adventure 2? With Gerald? Hell, Sonic Battle. Not trying to be confrontational at all, I'm honestly curious. The Info Wiki says nothing.
     
  6. Tweaker

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    Well, I acknowledged the Sonic Adventure 2 thing above. I'm not sure about Battle, though; I imagine it would have references to Gerald Robotnik given that he has a whole series of journals in the game, but I'm pretty sure that's the only occurrence of Robotnik uttered in the Japanese canon from that point forward. I guess there's Shadow the Hedgehog, too, but if I remember right that was a US-developed game, so that's up in the air in terms of reliability.
     
  7. The KKM

    The KKM

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    I am understanding your point then, Tweaker. On this case I might agree, but just for discussion- you say the original names are the most untainted experience. What about stuff like Astérix, where the names were puns and in order to keep the spirit of the series they were changed in England? Or Tolkien himself suggesting name changes and adaptions of his work? I think you do have a valid point, but I also think you should see there are many cases localization is not only inevitable but a good thing.

    But yes, you're correct on the Eggman/Robotnik issue.
     
  8. Shadic

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    Then Eggman/Robotnik's full name is Dr. Ivo Robotnik? Because that's the only thing that makes sense to me.
     
  9. Effexor

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    Ah, I see what you mean now. Great to know that this got cleared up before it got ugly.
     
  10. Shadow was developed by the same team in California as SA2 and Heroes. Sonic 3 & Knuckles was also developed in the US by a largely Japanese team, and Sonic 2 was developed in the US by a mix of Japanese and American members. I wouldn't put too much stock into the relation of development location to whether something is canon or not.
     
  11. npd89

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    Heh - I'm glad the man who came up with the name Robotnik agrees with me :rolleyes:
     
  12. RandomAvatarFan

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    Robotnik FTW! It was Robotnik in my first Sonic game (Sonic 2). It was Robotnik in my second Sonic game (Sonic 1). It was Robotnik in my third (Sonic 3), fourth (3D Blast) and fifth (Sonic and Knuckles) He is Robotnik because he makes ROBOTS called badNIKS!
     
  13. The KKM

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    You can as easily say he is EGGman because he looks like an EGG! I'm only pointing out that the reason the robots are badniks is Robotnik, not the other way around.
     
  14. Jay T.

    Jay T.

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    And uh, just to be totally sure, 'sides the Death Egg, of course, isn't almost all of the machines Robotnik/Eggman used in the past Sonic games (Sonic 1 - 3D Blast) almost always have the term "Egg" in the name as well ('sides the Metal/Mecha/Silver/etc replicas of the heroes)? I think his vehicle has always been the Egg-Mobile or something? Correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  15. His real name was Robeggnikman because he made robot eggs but unfortunately Sega decided to take this out of the game.
     
  16. Phos

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    If you want to talk about global appeal, keep in mind that during the 90's, he was known as Robotnik in "not Japan". That's the only region that saw much use of that name. SOE and Tectoy based their stuff off SOA's stuff. You also have to consider who you're translating it for and to what end. Dragonball has two interesting examples of this. I am of course speaking of "Mr. Satan". I don't know what connotations this name has in Japan (That he's pretentious enough to name himself after the devil based on his strength?), but in America, it implies that he is either the most evil thing imaginable or at least fancies himself so, and that's assuming you can even tell that it's supposed to imply anything, and not just confuse the viewer. Basically, his name doesn't mean what it needs to in order to represent his character properly. The name "Hercul" (Or however it's spelled) perfectly fits the character that the show was trying to convey. He believes that he has godlike strength within a story featuring characters who can destroy planets. He also kinda looks Greek. The name "Mr. Satan" would probably be seen as an anomaly to anyone who wasn't away of his existence prior to his introduction.

    On the other hand, "Goku" went untranslated. I suppose there isn't really a right way to translate it, so they kept the original name.
     
  17. MK

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    IMO we need to just agree to disagree. His name was Robotnik here until they essentially retconned it, referencing the old name every couple of games the same way they make other arbitrary references to old things, for nostalgia and continuity purposes.

    I haven't played anything past Sonic Adventure (I did play the handhelds after it though) so I can't really speak to how his name(s) were presented after that point.

    As for /why/ they decided to effectively retcon it, I'm not entirely sure. As stated, the name Robotnik was and is extremely well known outside Japan and Eggman really isn't that much better imo.
     
  18. The KKM

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    The point to make is, it wasn't retconned. He always was Eggman, like he always was Robotnik. Then someone joined them. It's not a retcon.
     
  19. 0r4ng3

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    I don't know what the fuss is all about. Both names are accepted without any problem. It would be natural to be slightly upset if they had eradicated the name but that wasn't what happened at all. The compromise (and knowing the whole story behind it) seems like the best move to me.

    And Pokémon's name don't have any sense as examples as they're double edged swords. It would make no sense if the character was named Fushigiso, as this has a meaning in Japanese (mysterious grass) but none in English, so of course names should have been localized in that case, though the meaning behind the name was not preserved. Another bad example of localization is Slash from Chrono Trigger. His Japanese name was Kamaitachi, which means nothing in English. But in Japanese it means razor wind, and that's a hint as to how you can defeat him. Naming him Slash was a mistake. Another example not related to name meaning is Tina/Terra from FF. In this case, Tina was chosen by the author because it sounded exotic, therefore the localization changed a normal name to an exotic sounding one. These changes are justified. But Eggman was English already, this is not the same case.

    Eggman is hated either because Robotnik was the first thing we were exposed to and/or because it sounds foreign. The first reason is just a case of acceptance that childhood innocence is good terrain to grow lies. The second... depends. Like I said Tina/Terra was a good change because that was the reason behind the original name. There is no relation in Robotnik's case, besides the obvious robots in a scientist name, which is just as lame as having egg in a rotund character's name. Going around and saying Robotnik means "slave worker" doesn't make sense because that was not the point of the localization name. And ivo is ovi backwards and it means, er... egg. So the hardcore pun of the second is senseless when compared to the first. This meaning being oh so important unlikely.

    This Robotnik change makes no sense, but there were so many things that got botched localizations in the nineties that is not a surprise. Some say it was for the hardcore factor... Like making Kirby frown in the US covers so he could be more hardcore (a pink thing no less). It's unnecessary and it misses the point of the creation. They were created with something in mind and these localizations botched that. And I doubt the Sonic series' success would've been any different because of the villain's name either. That said, I like Robotnik. Besides the robot pun, which I like because it's silly, there's not much about it however. That is why I like Eggman as well. It's just as silly, but it also represents his narcissistic side.


    Yes. If you're gonna be completely evil, then go all the way, standing midway and twimbling your thumbs is not cool. Also, be competent and not get your arse owned at the end of every episode. SatAM was a joke of a generic villain who was only successful in Blast to the Past, because otherwise there would be no series.
     
  20. MK

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    It's a retcon because they don't use the name anymore in any meaningful capacity, imo.

    At least, it's as close to a retcon as you can get without being a retcon, since the name is technically still canon.

    I should also point out that I personally believe the wiki article title should be Robotnik and not Eggman.
     
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