Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by LOst, Sep 23, 2005.
Sega CD versions of S1 and S2 disassemblies have already been done.
.. wait.. what?
Then release them.
Or are you going to pull a drx on us?
Tell me about the Sega CD DMA bug and how you managed to split Sonic 2 into manageable Sega CD sized chunks and I might believe you. I seem to remember that the spritesets for Sonic and Tails alone took up a pretty sizeable chunk.
Yeah, LOst. You can brag about shit, but without proof, you are no more than a Perfect Chaos; Someone you hate with all of your being.
I don't know ASM, but I remember I liked Flash 5 better than MX.
That reminds me... Flash 8 came out pretty recently...
I've never heard of "Sega CD versions of S1 and S2 disassemblies"
If they're incomplete, I reccomend releasing them, even if they aren't commented enough, who cares? It's more than a start.
Or is this community about secrets and hoarding? It gets hard to tell sometimes.
I can't release them. They are not my projects. Actually I am not even approved to say the name of the guy who made it possible.
I can leave a hint. His name is all over the news page at S2B. He made Knuckles in Sonic 1 possible. You can pretty much guess he's a success already.
Well, you can use software to copy the data instead of using DMA. And you can divide the game into smaller chunks. I guessed that would be your project since you are the Sega CD guy. I just wanted to say that it has already been done, so that you don't need to do work for nothing.
I suppose if you don't mind copying data at less than half the speed, software is an okay solution. I'd imagine with a game like Sonic that the performance hit would be very noticeable though. Water transition would get messed up too, though given the way HInts work on the Sega CD it wouldn't surprise me if it was placed in RAM such that it wouldn't be an issue.
As for splitting the game into smaller chunks, that works great for certain things (all the data for all the different levels don't have to be loaded at the same time), but I seem to remember that the sprite sets for Sonic and Tails are uncompressed and take up a huge portion of the Sonic 2 ROM. Short of preventing Sonic and Tails from appearing on the screen at the same time, I don't see a lot of good ways of getting around this problem. I could probably think of some ways to do it enlisting the help of the Sub 68K, but it would be a huge mess to retrofit.
That said, if Stealth comes out with a decent Sonic 2 port to the Sega CD in the relatively near future, I'll be quite impressed.
Well, the DMA problem is when you work with WORD RAM. Not RAM to VRAM. So the load times between levels would only be affected here.
I highly doubt the spritesets for Sonic and Tails are living in Genesis Work RAM though.
The workaround is actually quite simple though. Steve Snake gave me the gist of it over on the segadev Yahoo group. I think you need to set the DMA start address to two bytes before where you really want it to start. Something like that anyway, it's been a while.
That's a bit TOO obvious of a clue...
Rofl, now that's a man who ought to back up his hard drive every couple days.
It's not for nothing, it's so it can be done and shared. =|
Hear, hear. =P Even though it's nothing I could really use, I recognise the difference in usefulness between a private and publically available release - especially if the guy who does the public release, despite not being the first to do it, puts in the effort for the masses regardless. Now that's some true dedication right there.
Making assumptions sometimes damns them to be true
So, that would make me "un-dedicated"? That's ..really nice. Who ever said that MoD actually WAS working on the same thing, or that HE would actually make a public release? Do you feel better now after both bandwagoning and soapboxing all in the same paragraph? I can't stress enough how much I hate "righteous" remarks with no real purpose. Really, is the world such a better place now that you threw around the idea of "the community" and "the greater good", blah, blah, blah, when it really doesn't accomplish anything except tricking some people into thinking you're a great person for having said it? If more people started DOing instead of TALKing, there would be alot less for everyone to be complaining about around here.
Reminds me of Quickman's apparant yearly rant.. if you want something THAT bad, why don't you do it yourself instead of holding it against other people whenever they happen NOT to throw you freebies? Noone has the right to just sit back on their ass and bitch and moan about how nothing's getting done and nobody knows how to do anything. That's the very definition of hypocracy. Base information is one thing (things you HAVE to be told, generally contained in users manuals), but you don't need EVERYTHING handed to you on a silver platter. THAT is why "noone will be left who knows". The greater majority of base information (if not all of it) that's concerned around here is already available. How in the world can someone ask "how can we do anything without the resources" (which someone did ask) if there are MORE resources now than when anyone first started doing these things? What exactly do you want? Finished products of various types, where you can change one number and claim it as your own? How is that helping? How is that making sure that "future generations can do these things"? People used to just follow behind each other and do the same things over again just for the experience, if not to even improve on them. Are some of you saying that you want to feel accomplished, but don't want to make any effort whatsoever? Or that you want to use something someone else put alot of time and effort into to further your own image?
How about me, for example? I wanted a Sonic game editor, so I created one. I wanted access to Sonic 1 from the internal side of things, so I disassembled it. I wanted Knuckles in Sonic 1, so I made it happen. I wanted to see Sonic 1 and 2 run on the SegaCD, and because of my own effort, I have. I wanted to make my own Sonic game a long time ago, too, and rather than settle for pre-made generic engines, I made one of my own. Nobody gave me this shit, I pulled it all out of my own ass. I've always been interested in computer programming, so I've been researching and doing ever since I was 7. All I ever asked for was base information. What is the function of this hardware? What is the address for the video buffer? What is the instruction set for this processor? What are the keywords and syntax for this programming language? Sure, small example code to prove a point is nice and handy (and even in FEW cases, relatively necessary), but I personally don't go around demanding it, much less whole programs or ideas that I could just as well whip up on my own. So if I can do it, what's stopping you? I didn't invent this hardware or write these games, so I have no "inside info" that I'm not sharing. I found resources and made use of them. I may choose times to be generous, but MY time and stress aren't YOUR resources. Watching that kind of attitude is the kind of thing that makes the people that DO do these things want to remove themselves from everyone. You might notice that several of them have. I've made more of a presence than some of them lately, but I'm not exctly "here" like most of the regularly-posting members. I like to sneak in and do a little something every now and then, but if this sentiment starts being reflected by the majority, I won't really have any problem giving it up.
I want to get all this out BEFORE something I did just because I was bored turns into something people start hating me again for. Not like what I had to say is going to make it any better, because some people won't want to hear it, but I just don't care. I worked myself into a stomach ulcer (with other reasons plus) pushing Knuckles in Sonic 1 and worrying about everyone's reactions. I knew alot of people would get excited about it, but what I was ignoring is that noone is ever happy. Nobody can ever just be pleased with something, they always want more. I didn't make Knuckles flash red.. I didn't follow-up by making Sonic 1/Sonic 2 for SegaCD.. fuck. My whole body is in need of rest. I have enough problems, I don't need my hobby turning into a fucking chore.
So now you all know about something I did about half a year ago when I had nothing to do, and moved away from when I found things that struck me as being more important, and you feel as if I'm obligated to give it to you so that I'm not a terrible person. That's just super. It barely works, and even still, it's just Sonic 1 and Sonic 2. Oh wow. I guess I should show everyone everything I have that's incomplete, reguardless of what it does. Like with Hivebrain's unreleased notes... why not? We can both purposefully make ourselves look like idiots. He's supposed to release them so they can be "debunked"? I'm sure he felt really good getting that idea in his head.. That, to me, just sounded like someone wanted the opportunity to LOOK smarter than a respected figure by taking advantage of them. It's just downright retarded to expect someone to release something that they KNOW is faulty for whatever reason. Just about ANYTHING can be done hastily just to get the point across to yourself so that you can go back to it at a later date and not worry about having forgotten any information or structure. Anybody with a little self-respect isn't going to go showing that stuff around to people who are just waiting to tear into it and belittle them (whether the condescention is "hidden" or not). In my case, what I have is the product of only a few days of work, done late at night, while working 12-hour shifts. I KNOW some function is missing, and some that exists is bad. That's just not the type of thing I go handing out, particularly since I KNOW I make alot of mistakes even when I think I've finished the perfect job.
I say again, I don't know if MoD is working on something similar. There IS a little logic in questioning the possibility, but I couldn't even say how likely it is. LOst seems to have got the idea that that's what's going on, and still, MoD hasn't confirmed (or denied). I don't know whether to be angry or happy that he brought me into this, because I assume that once he jumped to that conclusion, he was only trying to protect my "accomplishment". If I had my way, though, everyone would still be blissfully ignorant. Your lives certainly didn't seem any emptier when you DIDN'T know I had this sitting around on my harddrive. It also didn't hurt you any that SonED2 was nearly "complete" a year before I released it. My scheduling is based on what's most important to me, what it takes to get ME through MY life. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't last to be giving anyone the things I do. Sonic on SegaCD wasn't important enough to actually work on for a good deal of time, in a similar way to the cycles I go through with all of my projects. In fact, NONE of my projects are the most pressing matter at hand for me right now, although I would like more time to handle them.
None of my projects are currently open for discussion, so my presense here is not indicitive of ANY desire whatsoever to answer any questions or respond to any reports or requests. That being said, I'm sure that MoD and Hivebrain would rather this discussion in particular be dropped as well, in favor of continuing the discussion this thread was intended for
Just before everyone starts replying. Consider not. It's better to just drop the case, or else we will have 15 pages of arguments that are not worth it
Woah, nigga! I ain't readin' all that shit!
Lost made it sound as if you had it fully working. You cannot blame everyone for getting excited about that, considering your recent awesomeness.
MoD: Don't feel like you HAVE to do something. Personally, I want you to keep the money I sent you weather I get something in return or not. You deserve it for everything you have done for me and this entire community. I'm just sorry that I couldn't send more.
Separate names with a comma.