Re: Sonic Megamix

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Stealth, Jul 2, 2016.

  1. Overlord

    Overlord

    Aros gartref, diogelu'r GIG, achub bywydau Moderator
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    Seeing as I was specifically called out...

    Your argument seems to be "I only want the very most skilled programmers to be making hacks." Sorry, but I don't buy that at all. If the code is being made voluntarily available (as opposed to outright taking without permission, which I agree is wrong and shouldn't be done) then you've got no right to stand in an ivory tower and yell down THOU SHALT NOT USE WHAT THY HAST NOT WRITTEN from the battlements. As others have mentioned, you could maybe be the best sprite artist ever but cannot program for toffee - if having reference code to use will give us more high quality hacks I have zero issues with that at all.

    And who's to say they might not learn enough from the experience to eventually be able to write code themselves anyway?
     
  2. FireRat

    FireRat

    Nah. Fuck it. Misfit
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    I'm tired of seeing the same damn problem over and over again. I seriously don't get what do you have with the homing attack, bitching so much about it, disassembling other people's unreleased work just to seek for stolen code, and whatever delirium you have through your glitchy brain. There's also no need of stealing code, vladikcomper put his own version to the public: http://pastebin.com/A2n9n88Z Who said to not take it? go wild!, be responsible, it's not that extra moves will automagically make your work any better :V

    EDIT: Grammar
     
  3. Selbi

    Selbi

    Impaled with Extreme Prejudice Member
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    Uh, no, that's not what I said. What I "want" is unique features staying unique. When the Spin Dash or Knuckles was first ported to Sonic 1, it was a huge deal. Nowadays, both things are so trivial nobody cares anymore. Over time, more and more of these features have become standard, if not mandatory, making the overall impression they once had almost ride into oblivion.

    I may be standing on my own feet with this opinion, but to me hacks are interesting if they have something unique to offer and aren't just rehashes of a bunch of freely available content.

    Therefore this
    is just putting words in my mouth. I could go ahead right this instant and try to manually recreate a few features of Megamix. Am I allowed to do that? Sure, nobody has rights on ideas. Will it be interesting? Most certainly not; it's been done before.

    On the other hand, trying to actually learn from this stuff is something I appreciate, and that was never something I denied. It's the direct copying that I don't like due to what I said above.
     
  4. CaveQuest

    CaveQuest

    Salt mines makes great things Member
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    I just think this is a really good intention but still for those who does look at the hack will make sure they use stuff that they shouldn't really have access to in the first place as for an example music. The music in megamix is great and all but if the source code came with some parts of the disasmbly so would some people go ahead and copy paste it to their hacks and be plain lazy about it. I myself are trying to learn Asm myself. and it's going quite slowly but this source code could just be used as an archive or something. I do think that this source code would make hacking more accessive and that's a great treat for the comunity. though don't we already have all the tools we need for hacking these days? I just think the source code would be used for lazyness and as Sonic says. That's no good.
     
  5. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Have no fear...Amy Rose is here! Tech Member
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    Back in the old days, building a computer was something special, now anyone can do it.

    Even before this announcement I was thinking of putting Knuckles' Emerald Hunt on GitHub after I "finish" it for this contest. Seeing people's attitudes here just makes me want to do it more.

    + - I think my homing attack (which I needed help to make in the first place), light speed dash, and light speed attack are better than everyone else's anyway.  
     
  6. MathUser

    MathUser

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    I think the danger in sharing code with the public can be seen in the "character in Sonic game" hacks. In most of them every character has a attack which has the range of a punch and it makes playing multiple of these hacks boring. Couldn't the totally new characters have attacks with different ranges or something? I can see if they are copying Sonic Adventure or something where everyones punch is the same, but there's no reason Sally Acorn has to have just a explosion attack which only has the range of a fist.
     
  7. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    staying alert on the beach Wiki Sysop
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    Hey you could release the homing attack code to the public, and every time it's used I can point out you don't need it in 2D :specialed:


    No, it's useful to have as much stuff as possible in the public domain, as it's an opportunity for people to learn. Having unused source code rotting on a hard drive does nothing for the world.
     
  8. qwertysonic

    qwertysonic

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    You all realize that this entire community is based on questionably legal IP-stealing practices. Engineering and reverse engineering is against every software EULA.
     
  9. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    We get that some of you guys care a lot about people learning things "the right way", but please refrain from inhibiting resource releases that can help others focus on not having to reinvent the wheel.


    Also, this topic got derailed fast.
     
  10. Stealth

    Stealth

    Tech Member
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    Sonic Mania, HCGE, Sonic Megamix, SonED2, [...]
    It's Megamix. Did you really expect any different? :P
     
  11. redhotsonic

    redhotsonic

    Also known as RHS Tech Member
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    What if you are like me and it's the other way round? I can't draw for shit! Can someone release some sprites for me please? ^_^

    No seriously, I'm shit at drawing sprites, I need help...
     
  12. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    People already do that all the time, there's lots of spritesheets around...
     
  13. 360

    360

    Light Vision Overdrive Oldbie
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    Releasing the source code will result in a positive contribution to the Sonic community. That's my opinion at least. Looking forward to the final release of the game.
     
  14. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

    Emerald Dragoon Moderator
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    Well this is...a thing. Realistically, you had to make SOME move, so I'm glad you're taking the initiative to do that much. I've got many things I can at least say for my own contribution, but I suppose those are best said in private. however, I very much wish you all the luck in the world on your own personal projects, and at the very least, you CAN shoot me a PM here at any time. I'm not dead yet! Severely occupied, but not enough that I won't give a listening ear at the very least
     
  15. Random aside, while most other people are mourning Megamix, I've been wondering for years now... Is Sonic Project Mettrix dead too? I've kept track of that project since its near-inception now, so I'd like to have closure on it to be sure.
     
  16. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester

    ♡ ! Resident Jester
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    I have changed my mind, I don't want to work on this anymore. I feel as though my work here has gone to utter waste anyway, I have better things to do than to work on a failing project.

    Additional clarification here:

    No, it was because of Bone Rattle. I am not working on both Megamix & Bone Rattle at the same time. The reason I hadn't done anything with it "lately", was because I asked you questions for things I needed help with (since its your engine, and your help site is too large to cypher through), and I never got answers to. I reasked again months down the line, I still didn't get an answer that I needed to progress further.

    I am aware that you are busy, and don't always have the time to answer questions, but what I'm asking here is that the facts remain straight, but all you've done is made me look like a cunt there. I don't take kindly to that.
     
  17. Stealth

    Stealth

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    Sonic Mania, HCGE, Sonic Megamix, SonED2, [...]
    Just as matter-of-fact dude, it doesn't seem that I have to be doing anything to make you look like a cunt right now

    Aside from the fact that if you wanted to take issue with this, you should have done it weeks ago when it was first posted, this is an extreme overreaction topped off with a bold-faced lie. We already went over this in private. I missed what you said in the team chat a few times because it got scrolled away too quickly, but you didn't persist for the answer (bolded in the quotes- your words, I didn't even have to say it) and you never contacted me in private where I'd be sure to see it, only in the team group chat. And, the one specific thing you complained about primarily was something that I absolutely did talk to you about. I told you about the "swap" commands that take the place of that pile of other commands to accomplish the same task that you complained about, but you seem to keep forgetting these things. If you want to go around in public calling me out over shit, at least lay legitimate claims. Same as you say, if it's out, I want the truth out. I didn't try to make anyone look like a cunt, I just responded to what you said with the relevant facts. It was absolutely as civil and unbiased as possible. At this point, I'm not particularly motivated to take kindly to your talk, either

    BTW, nice out-of-context quote. Maybe it's you that's actually trying to start some shit? I honestly can't tell

    How, by any stretch of the english language, does that indicate that I want to label you as a "cunt"?
     
  18. Stealth

    Stealth

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    Yo, man.. Just to cover my side of things, I sent you a couple of PMs on this board and direct skype/msn messages about this a good while ago. The fact that I sent them directly to you and not as part of something that could be easily skipped over, and how I had spaced out sending them, I got the impression that you were legit ignoring me for some reason so I didn't bother you anymore. Maybe they were lost in some kind of confusion? I don't know.. Exact same thing happened with Robjoe.. I've even seen the both of you sign into Skype a few times in the recent weeks and you had nothing to say to me (which is generally fine anyway, I don't fault people for not starting conversations frequently because I don't do it myself, either), but also, neither you nor Robjoe ever talked in the Skype Megamix chat I started with you invited, either, which is another thing that I had assumed would visibly pop up in your face the first time your client downloaded it, and for a little while, a lot was said in there. It has gone dead since, though, and I've long since lost the link after reinstalling Windows and updating Skype

    Yeah, it's cool if your busy and all. I just couldn't tell if it was that or either of you had some kind of problem with me. There had been enough going on with a lot of things to make that sort of thing easy for me to believe
     
  19. MathUser

    MathUser

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    So contributors ignoring main programmers can lead to death of projects. Good to know. Too bad nobody thought of that before.
     
  20. Stealth

    Stealth

    Tech Member
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    Sonic Mania, HCGE, Sonic Megamix, SonED2, [...]
    Yeah, just so it's actually specified here, this is why I haven't been working on Megamix myself lately



    (discussion thread here)
    http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=35709&st=0