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Question about Hyrdocity

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by saintminya, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    Officially, yes, but, as I said before, I was just a nice try in terms of story, as most events in it don't make real sense and it was used to start the modern trend of plots with game exclusive monsters (fuck you, Forces), weird uses of emeralds powers, etc. It's right modern games had some overarching plot thanks to shadow, but this character is the only one that gets some love from writers, as there's no reason to take Knuckles away of the Master Emerald in Heroes, for example. Anyway, I disregard anything that doesn't link well with the classics as part of the modern illness, such as the weird and wrong time travel in Sonic '06, specially for the emeralds.

    That's about modern games, but it's not like 3D Blast blends well with previous titles; in fact, it would fit better in the 8-bit alternate storyline, which never had Master Emerald or Super Sonic, and allows for Knuckles to be out of Angel Island. Probably, Sonic X-Treme would have suffered the same fate if it was ever released, as I doubt it would have had Super Sonic in it, and it was meant to have Nack/Fang as an enemy. Sonic the Fighters isa bit out of place here, as any racing game would be (Drift/Drift 2/R). I dare you to be willing to include Tails Sky Patrol, Sonic Labyrinth and G-Sonic on any classic timeline, I dare you twice.
     
  2. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    Oh yeah. I definitely agree that if you want a continuity where the characters' actions are consistent and make sense, you won't get that with Modern Sonic.
    Knuckles just being 'there' in Sonic Heroes was always a bit of a red flag for me. At least in SA1 and 2 there were logical reasons for him to move his ass off Angel Island, but since then I feel that just went out of the window, as Sonic Team felt it was easier to just make him a sidekick without any baggage (apart from the odd reminder here and there that "oh yeah, I guard Angel Island, that's right").

    Surely Sky Patrol can more-or-less fit anywhere though? It's not one I personally count in the same way I wouldn't count Waku Waku Sonic Patrol Car, but I feel like it's a pretty non-demanding game in terms of continuity? Tails stops some local troublemakers - The End - :v:
     
  3. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    I believe Tails Adventures was said to be before Tails met Sonic.
     
  4. Retroman

    Retroman

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    As long as they don't do it Ken Penders style.
     
  5. XCubed

    XCubed

    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    Tails Adventures was an absolute pleasure to watch a friend play through expert style....13 years ago (which was even old then as it came out in 1995). I would never have played that on my own and if I did, would have never finished it.
     
  6. Chainspike

    Chainspike

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    Simple Breakdown that I'm sure has errors


    Sonic 1 - Master System and Genesis happen at the same time
    Sega sonic the hedgehog - Likely before Tails meets Sonic, placement unknown
    Sonic Labyrinth - Game has 6 emeralds thus taking place before Sonic 2; placement may vary.
    Tails Skypatrol - Taking place sometime before Tails meets Sonic.
    Tails Adventures - Taking place sometime before Tails meets Sonic.
    Sonic 2 Master/GG - Silver sonic prototype is built (Assuming it is one) This prototype has the ability to spindash; this is how sonic learns the move!
    Sonic CD - Super Peel-out and "unstable" spindash.
    Sonic Drift - This can happen anywhere after Sonic CD. (It takes place on south island)
    Sonic Chaos (Tails starts helping Sonic) Sonic has perfected the spindash.
    Sonic 2 16-bit (Start of the 7 emeralds and death egg saga)
    Sonic 3 (Follows Sonic 2 directly)
    Sonic & Knuckles (Follows Sonic 3)
    Sonic triple trouble - Knuckles has been tricked again? 6 emeralds again?
    Knuckles' Chaotix - Takes place after S3&K; Metal sonic is rebuilt from Sonic CD into "Metal Sonic Kai" (He now has red eyes)
    Sonic Drift 2 - Metal sonic has red eyes so it takes place after chaotix. (Nack is also present)
     
  7. Well done. Thinking about it more, I could see how Triple Trouble could follow up Sonic's story in Sonic & Knuckles. I'd still place it prior to Knuckles' run through of & Knuckles though.

    To add to it, Sonic 3D Blast either takes place around the same time as Chaotix or afterward. Not sure where that would go in relation to Drift 2 though.

    And as a little aside...I prefer to place SegaSonic the Hedgehog before Sonic 1. There's some flavor text in Sonic 1's manual that references Sonic having encountered Eggman before.
     
  8. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    When I dared you to add those obscure games, I didn't say there was no place for them, I just think they're quite out of place or are just generic games with Sonic characters. Oh, and of course, some of them are terrible. The only thing Tails Sky Patrol has in common with Sonic games is Tails himself, and we know it's simply a different game they changed its playable character to Tails. And there are so many Death Egg Mk. II out there, Drift 2 and Sonic The Fighters could happen at the same time too, if that could ever be possible.

    That said, I think SegaSonic The Hedgehog would happen before Sonic 1 because Sonic flees scared instead of fighting since the very beginning, and it could serve well as the reason why Sonic started fighting Robotnik; in other words, it could be their very first encounter.
     
  9. Well perhaps Sonic Drift 2 is actually the crew driving from arena to arena in Sonic the Fighters.
     
  10. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    Yup. I always liked this idea. Even officially it doesn't clash with the backstory of any other game, and reinforces Sonic 1's original JP manual text.

    Also

    - Eggman isn't trapping animals inside his robots in Segasonic
    - Sonic isn't able to outrun Eggman's capture machine in the opening cutscene

    Also the lack of Tails, Chaos Emeralds, etc. It's practically begging to be a prequel :v:
     
  11. Artemis Davar

    Artemis Davar

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    You could also say Sonic 2's mechanical sonic is a redesign of Sonic CD's, which would explain it's sudden and out of place appearance. Then 3K's mechanical sonic is Robitniks final attempt, and he just gives up after that. Therefore the classic timeline is 1, CD, 2, 3K.
     
  12. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    While indeed, they talk about Metal Sonic as if it was the very first Sonic resembling robot made, it's probably the most advanced of them all, and the most popular one, which could be a good reason to say CD goes after 3&K, but I still think it fits better between Sonic 1 and 2, because of this logic:

    A) South Island, 6 Chaos Emeralds.
    B) Little Planet, 7 Time Stones.
    C) Robotnik: "Umm... What if there's a 7th Chaos Emerald somewhere?"

    And there enters Sonic 2, with Robotnik finding the missing emerald. Back on robotic hedgehogs talk, each model could be a different approach of impersonation, depending on its purpose and what Robotnik wants to achieve with them:

    1) Metal Sonic: Sheer speed.
    2) Sonic 2 16-Bit: Offensive juggernaut, based on razor spikes.
    3) Sonic 2 8-Bit: All-purpose prototype, from which the previously listed ones could come after.
    4) Sonic & Knuckles: Another balanced model, this time prepared to use emerald energy.
    5) Sonic Adventure: Who knows and who cares, but there was a different model inside a glass container that never showed up in game, maybe it was just a decorative accesory or a rejected prototype.
     
  13. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Has that ever been confirmed?

    It was nice that with the Advance games you could always infer a reason for Knuckles' involvement. In Advance 1 Eggman has deployed robots on Angel Island, created an imposter Knuckles robot and seems to be after the Master Emerald, if the bad ending is anything to go by. (This works best if you assume that Sonic's story is the canon one and that Knuckles didn't join the fight until Angel Island Zone.)

    In Advance 2 you encounter Knuckles in Sky Canyon Zone, which on the stage select map is located on a floating island, presumably Angel Island.

    In Advance 3 Knuckles just sort of shows up, but it still has a Zone set on Angel Island, and Knuckles remains behind at the Master Emerald shrine whilst the other heroes run off.

    As for the timeline discussion, I've dug up a couple of my old posts:

    Core Sonic timeline discussion.

    Classic Sonic a separate dimension as of Sonic Forces?

    Trying to fit the Game Gear games into continuity is a bit of a fool's errand.

    Sonic first met Tails on West Side Island, as told in the Mega Drive Sonic 2 manual. The Death Egg crashes into Angel Island, so Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the next encounter with Eggman.

    So even the Game Gear/Master System Sonic 2 would have to take place after S3&K. And then there's the Sonic & Tails 2 (Triple Trouble) manual that introduces Knuckles as a stranger to Sonic.

    It's probably best to think of the 8-bit Sonic games as an alternate universe.
     
  14. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    100% agree with you there Pengi. With Advance 1, I always sort of assumed the green emerald in the Intro was the Master Emerald (with a symbolically giant eggman) and completely forgot about that 'bad ending', which backs that up. Nice!

    My only issue with Knuckles in Advance 2 is that Sonic tells him off for being 'tricked' again. How the hell did Eggman convince Knuckles to climb into a giant robot donut and fight Sonic again? The manual only mentions that Tails and Knuckles were kidnapped, but sadly nothing else is elaborated on. :v:
     
  15. Whimsicott

    Whimsicott

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    I was wondering about the same thing regarding Carnival Night. It seems to serve no purpose in the Death Egg's relaunch. Could be a place of entertainment for the robot workers, or for Robotnik himself. Aside from Launch Base they seem to be the only modern structures on the island, and seem reasonably well populated judging by the background.
     
  16. Carnival Night seems like the only fully-modern location on Angel Island, aside from the Death Egg. I think Eggman just likes gigantic casinos, so he couldn't just set up shop on the island and not build himself a casino/massive entertainment metropolis.
     
  17. Chainspike

    Chainspike

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    Sonic Drift 2 presents a problem due to the Death Egg reappearing. But, what if the Death Egg didn't get destroyed in Sonic 3 & Knuckles? An object that big exploding next to a planet would have devastating effects. Assuming it was not destroyed completely, it would have likely been disabled. In the Milky Way course, the Death Egg is some distance from the rest of the planets, so it could have drifted away.

    Sonic the fighters is bit weird in the fact that everyone wants to beat each other up in order to power up a rocket bound for the Death Egg. As much as it would make sense to take place after Drift 2, the game is simply an excuse to make a Sonic game where you can beat up the other characters.

    What if it was built to lure in Tails? Or perhaps it was a distraction to slow Sonic down so the Death Egg could be fixed in time. Either way, Robotnik likes to build deadly carnivals, cities, and casinos.

    Revised timeline:

    Sega sonic the hedgehog - Before Tails meets Sonic, no chaos emeralds
    Sonic 1 - Master System and Genesis happen at the same time
    Sonic Labyrinth - Game has 6 emeralds thus taking place before Sonic 2; placement may vary.
    Tails Skypatrol - Taking place sometime before Tails meets Sonic.
    Tails Adventures - Taking place sometime before Tails meets Sonic.
    Sonic 2 Master/GG - Silver sonic prototype is built (Assuming it is one) This prototype has the ability to spindash; this is how sonic learns the move!
    Sonic CD - Super Peel-out and "unstable" spindash.
    Sonic Drift - This can happen anywhere after Sonic CD. (It takes place on south island)
    Sonic's Gameworld (If this even needs to be counted) - Takes place after Drift 1; Amy is present and so are the cars from Drift.
    Sonic Chaos (Tails starts helping Sonic) Sonic has perfected the spindash.
    Sonic 2 16-bit (Start of the 7 emeralds and death egg saga)
    Sonic 3 (Follows Sonic 2 directly)
    Sonic & Knuckles (Follows Sonic 3)
    Knuckles' Chaotix - Takes place after S3&K; Metal sonic is rebuilt from Sonic CD into "Metal Sonic Kai" (He now has red eyes)
    Sonic Triple Trouble - Knuckles is tricked again, Metal Sonic has red eyes, Robotnik steals 6 of the 7 emeralds.
    Sonic Drift 2 - Metal sonic has red eyes so it takes place after chaotix. (Nack is also present) Death Egg is back again.
    Sonic Blast - There is an object that looks just like the Death Egg; except it goes by a different name.
    Sonic 3D blast - Takes place anywhere after S&K
    Sonic the Fighters - placement unknown. Death Egg II is built; although it could just be the original with extra stuff added.
    Sonic R - Takes place after Knuckles Chaotix (Metal Sonic with red eyes)
    Sonic Mania (I know it says it takes place after S3&K, but it doesn't say right after)

    This could work, except that Knuckles teams up with Sonic at the end of Sonic's story. The Japanese manual states the Knuckles has been tricked again, and also that Robotnik has taken 6 of the emeralds. It does not say that he took all of them. The emeralds were then scattered in an machine testing accident and Nack was able to find 5 of them.
     
  18. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Skypatrol is after Tails has met Sonic and Eggman. They're both mentioned in the manual.

    Does it? The only translation I've seen of the manual's prologue describes Knuckles as "a stranger". Knuckles and Eggman do have character profiles in the manual though, which I've never seen a translation of.

    http://info.sonicretro.org/index.php?title=File:SonicTripleTrouble_GG_JP_manual.pdf&page=29

    Anyone able to shed some light?
     
  19. Linkabel

    Linkabel

    Member
    I always saw Eggman's casinos/park levels as a way for him to get money for his plans. The materials have to come from somewhere, right?

    Though, I too wondered how Carnival Night factored into the Death Egg project...until Sonic Adventure. There's a part in SA where a NPC mentions people are going to Angel Island to snowboard.

    The island was grounded in Sonic 3 too so maybe Carnival Night was made to lure people/critters to spend money/become badniks which would help the Death Egg.

    Of course, that's just my idea and I'm sure the development team just wanted a park level without caring how it affected the story.
     
  20. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    You guys realize like 70% of these games aren't considered canon even by Sega right