PROSONIC IS NOW OPEN SOURCE

While it's great to set personal benchmarks to stay motivated, saxman was trying to get people on board developing projects for ProSonic, and those developers should be able to expect that they're working with tools that match the pitch they were given. Remember, it was saxman that was pumping up the initial public release as a big deal. Just check the first post.

All this release does is undermine saxman's credibility, the trustworthiness of his claims, and the ProSonic concept generally. It's not good to get people talking about your program when what they're saying is that it sucks.

 

Here's a quick one, having the editor external means if the game crashes you won't lose what you were working on. I myself have an external editor, which launches the game at the specified point for testing via a 'RUN' button.

Also, I think people's problems with the editor lie mainly with the current lack of GUI interface. If you look at most game editors these days, they make use of a GUI, either using System native widgets or custom. Things like having a side bar showing the 128x128 tiles for the user to pick from make it much faster to edit than having to scroll through them (even with the copy/paste). An interface also makes it easier for people to learn how the editor works simply by exploring menus and reading buttons etc. Keyboard shortcuts should only be just that, shortcuts for people already adept at using the program.

 

Honestly, why the hell have you even released this?
This is horribly incomplete, there isn't anything but Sonic, rings, an Emerald Hill layout, and a gym music in the background.
The rings don't even make a sound when they're got.
Never force yourself this kind of deadlines, when you know you aren't going to have an even remotely finished thing.
Releases like this just make you look bad and lose creditibility.
I think that if you even spent two months more on this thing, it would have been much better.
I don't get that argument that you released this only because you didn't want it to stagnate, motivation is only going to be given
to you by one person, and that is yourself. And some months aren't a far away remote future.
We might as well understand, but the usual SAGE guy's surely going "bawww... prosonic sucks".
[/rant]
About the engine, it's pretty solid and feels nice.
I think you're better off with a customed scripting bytecode rather than emulating a 68000.
You will not have to emulate a complex CPU and it will be less buggy and faster in the end.
You can always port Sonic's code from the games by hand.
It's better to keep things simple and stupid, that's why you should ditch the 8-bit mode that nobody ever uses anymore
unless they don't have anything but it.

 

I think some of you are a bit disillusioned here... he released this as a proof of concept of features implemented into the engine to prove that it actually existed—something he didn't do last time he was working on ProSonic. Would you prefer tons of talk for months with no actual tangible evidence that he's actually doing what he says he is?

This release is, by all means, little more than a proof of concept. Treat it as a full release and you're bound to be disappointed. Treat it as what it is and you have a better idea of what's coming up.

That said, this is only an example build—not a formal release. I like the idea of a monthly build for public testing and a progress indicator. If you guys don't like the idea of helping develop this engine, then I have no idea why you're even interested in it. I have some pet peeves with the way some of the terminology or interface is being handled, and I state those concerns accordingly; a new monthly build, for example, would let me see how those concerns were handled, at the very least.

What he has here isn't the most impressive ever, yes. I realize that, and I think everyone does to some extent. But it's a proof of concept. Keep that in mind before you decide to comment on things.

 

Why must the first showcase release of a sonic engine do this?

 

I am HORRIBLY disgusted by the disrespect towards Sax....

 

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

 

Don't you people find it amazing that saxman managed to create this so quickly while meanwhile retrosonic and it's development kit have been a work in progress for years? I am surprised he could even get this all done in 3 months. But still this needs patches. But great job saxman!

 

Personally, I wasn't disrespecting Saxman, I was disrespecting ProSonic. Big difference there.

And it isn't even the fact that ProSonic is the way it is (nothing wrong with demos), but that it was advertised and presented as something more. I personally await when ProSonic does reach that "something more" status so it can be judged on its own merits, but as of now I stand by what I said in the first place: This is nowhere near ready for prime time.

 

From what I can tell, the physics are spot on, so that's not bad.

Besides, I honestly don't think that something like this should put his credibility on the line. You guys are damn fools if you're gonna say that.

 

Actually, the physics (what I believe to be the most important part of the engine) are very solid and the engine itself seems to be very good. Granted, if the comments are any indiciators, I think some of you are dissapointed at the simplicity of it, but it seems that progress is coming nicely.

Is it incomplete? Yes, but what he has presented is very good, and in my opinion more promising of future good progress.

 

BBAAAAAWWW It's not finished



You guys are lol. Anyway, looks good Saxman, thanks for releasing something for us to play with instead of keeping it a secret forever and then eventually releasing an almost done version while at the same time announcing it's canceled :v:

 

Youtube videos are all that's needed for that. And a demo would be all well and good, if it were in a presentable state. Presentable meaning:

• No frequent complete crashes
• Sound doesn't skip and stutter when you switch to something else. It should either cut out to complete silence, or continue as normal.
• Player character has at least placeholder animations for all abilities he uses, and doesn't go totally invisible at random (like when standing on something's edge)
• At least one level complete, with all major objects used by it implemented. (bridges, springs, corkscrews, signpost, and maybe badniks, spikes and lampposts)
• All of the fundamental game mechanics are in place (damage, death, levels ending)

Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's anything wrong with releasing a proof of concept demo build. It's just that releasing one that's in this state reflects negatively on the project, and on the developer's decision-making.

I mean, can you imagine what the reaction would have been if we released a build of megamix that crashed whenever people picked shadow? Or where sonic's sprite disappeared completely while pushing?

 

I don't think it's quite a bad thing that it was released like this, per se, but mostly that it was advertised as it being smoething more. I, for one, was expecting a lot more out of it, having read very little of the thread; I thought that date would be the "1.0 engine" release where most stuff is working and only a few minor details needed to be hammered out.

Now if he had just said it would be a tech demo demonstrating bits of the engine and wasn't anywhere near complete, as well as having fixed the complete crashing problems, I don't think there would have been nearly as much of an outcry.

Though I can't really agree with the whole "this damages the credibitilty" thing. It's just a mistake in representation, and hopefully it doesn't happen again.

 

Now, as a proof of concept, I've got to say I'm fairly happy with this. Seems a lot simpler to use than the other level editors I've tried, and Sonic seems to work properly. I'm a bit confused as to how to add solidity to imported tiles, but the actual importing seems simple too. So from a newbie to editing, it seems fine in what we have at this stage in time.

Sure, it's incomplete, but we're a board who thrives on incomplete things. Hidden Palace isn't exactly the most playable either. It certainly doesn't have an end to the stage...

So I've just got to say thanks to Saxman, and I'm really looking forward to seeing future updates.

 

The difference here is that previous releases of Megamix already acted as a sufficient proof of concept; in addition, we didn't reveal every single change we ever made to the game, nor were we socially obligated to. We had rep on our side and an eventual release to back up our claims. ProSonic has gone a long time without a proper, somehow-playable build, so saxman felt he was obligated to allow people to play something, rather than nothing at all. I don't really see a problem with that.

I mean, if nothing else, it's fun to dick around with it. That's the point of the release, really.

 

Upon some further contemplation, I have realized that everything I'm trying to say about this here prosonic release has already been said in this post. So I'm just going to link that and be done.

If, in the future, saxman pays attention to what was said there ProSonic could shape up to be the best development in the sonic community in ages. Otherwise... well, color me disappointed.

 

I really think people are just afraid to point out the emperor has no clothes because of how badly Saxman has been treated by us in the past. This is not his finest hour. What we have here is a pretty cool idea, I.e. an engine that allows you to add things to the levels on the fly. However, even the most basic part of it, the physics, is no where near ready. He even said in the IRC that he plans to fix the speed later. I mean for God's sake, this engine is worse than Klick n play. Sonic can't even run on corkscrews! I mean seriously.

Honestly, I think it would make a LOT more sense for Saxman and Taxman to collaberate on Retrosonic. With this real time tile editing system and the good well, everything else that Retrosonic already has, we'd be all set.