Potential character development that died a long time ago

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by NickonAquaMagna, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. Hukos

    Hukos

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    Isn't this just baseless conjecture? I mean, you know, people could think that SA2 just has a piss poor story without any sort of "vengeance" required (A pretty ridiculous notion without any basis in reality)? And that people just think the series is better off without relying on narration?
     
  2. Vaiyt

    Vaiyt

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    SA2 felt like overblown fanfiction at the time. All these years did nothing to endear me to that era of hedgehog storytelling. In fact, Shadow and 06 only made me more bitter about those years. Adolescent attempts at gravitas interspersed with moments that kept dragging me down and reminding me how ridiculous those colorful fuzzy creatures sounded when trying to go all Serious Business on me.
     
  3. Metal Man88

    Metal Man88

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    Whoa, tough line there, calling everything you disagree with baseless conjecture. I can't compete here, you might next just say I'm wrong without giving any legitimate reason why. Seems someone died and made you king of what other people think. Well I can't compete with that, I just have years and years of experience watching people change their minds about things—so by all means, enlighten me as to how SA2 was greeted on its debut with cries of "THIS GAME SUCKS AND ITS STORY IS AWFUL" and hailed "ANOTHER CRUMMY PLOT IN A CRUMMY SONIC GAME." :p
     
  4. Mercury

    Mercury

    His Name Is Sonic Tech Member
    It's interesting. I've never understood this take on things. As humans, we've been telling stories - "serious business" stories - about animals (and anthropomorphic animals) since the dawn of our species.

    Maybe it's because I grew up on Redwall, but I've never found there to be disconnect between serious storytelling and animal characters. And in Sonic's case, since he's a sentient being, he's no more an animal than any human character is. He's more like an alien species - do people have this problem with stories about Vulcans, or Twi'leks?

    I'm not saying Sonic has to be grimdark, or overly serious, I'm saying that the fact that he has blue fur and spines shouldn't be used as an argument against character development or drama.
     
  5. Palas

    Palas

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    Hm. Character development has nothing to do with the tone of the story. As Mercury said, we've been told stories about animal Gods who rape virgins for no particular reason since... always.

    And, even then, if we put aside all the cultural and religious aspects of such myths and look at them under pure storytelling perspective, what puts us off the most about their actions is not that it's an antropomorphic being raping humans, but the absolute lack of reasoning behind their actions. It makes them so purely evil it is weird - there is no character development at this point. We like to think evil has a reason to be evil - that's why the Devil, as a character, is much better comprehended after we know the story of Lucifer.

    Anyway, the point is: such stories have such a setting and a setup that makes their form not matter. It makes antropomorphic guys blend in the environment. It is not uncanny to have a half-bird God in Egyptian mythology because, well, their mythology has a bunch of elements, backstories and actual essential reasoning behind their existence.

    It's different with Sonic Adventure 2.

    That game shows us Sonic in an environment where he clearly doesn't belong. If all of Sonic Adventure 2's story was set in a proper Sonic universe, with an army made of furries instead of GUN and forests with checkered floor instead of the realistic Green Forest, I'm positive no one would find it weird. It's like MetalMan88 said: if they are to tell serious and complex stories, they need a stable universe to base them on (and, to an extent and in a certain sense, to protect them).
     
  6. Rosie

    Rosie

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    I've wanted a game set in a world populated by antho characters for over ten years now. There's no reason why humans can't be there, Eggman is human after all, but it would make more sense than Sonic and co running around like a bunch of freaks.
     
  7. Palas

    Palas

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    This is something I see fit as well. And, imo, the humans must be stylized as well. If the point is making Robotnik/Eggman not look like a freak, then they couldn't do it anyway because he's not a normal-looking human, but a stylized one.

    There is, though, a huge problem with populating the world with Sonic-like beings. It would, of course, make Sonic's universe more unique and distinguishable, but Sonic, being the hero, must also be unique and distinguishable within this universe. Populate the world with anthros and Sonic will be just a blue hedgehog. Blaze already has more distinguishable looks than Sonic, but we can't afford to have each and every specimen to look just as unique as Sonic or even more. This is probably why Sonic used to save flickies and not anthros back then; also likely to be the reason why the Chao are the way they are.

    EDIT: But this is another matter.
     
  8. Azookara

    Azookara

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    I think the style for the franchise since Unleashed has been rather consistent and flexible regarding art style, and the way they did the humans was practically perfect. They just have to implement anthro NPCs that mix with it and don't seem like fancharacters, which could or could not be impossible to do.

    EDIT: Yeah, this is another matter now that I think of it. :v
     
  9. Felik

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    Well Sonic Rush Adventure had a bunch of anthro NPCs and they looked generic enough to not make Sonic & Co fade.
    Sonic Adventure had echidnas. But they, on other hand, looked like Knuckles' recolors so he didn't look so special among them.
    I think if animal NPCs will be different species than main characters it will be ok.
     
  10. Vaiyt

    Vaiyt

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    My problem isn't so much with the seriousness, but how the cardboard-thin motivations of the characters, the corny dialogue and the lack of a coherent theme linking everyone's stories together throws me off.
     
  11. Mercury

    Mercury

    His Name Is Sonic Tech Member
    This, this this!

    IMO, they could take a page from Osamu Tezuka. The Astro Boy universe has cartoony humans, aliens, anthropomorphic animals, and robots, and it all (basically) fits together.

    I really think the first couple of Sonic games were heavily influenced by classic Japanese animation like this, what with all the retro fonts, designs, and retro-sounding music. I wonder why they seemed to forget all about it.
     
  12. AeonicB

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    I'm personally happy if the more plotty stories are relegated to sidegames, see Sonic Battle.

    My main pick with the series isn't the lack of character development, its the inability to keep the direction they committed to in the last game. I *still* have no clue about Shadow's story, and it would have been nice to see him, you know, stay dead.

    Though I will play a game for plot, Sonic and Mario are both games that need to be accessible by kids too. Too plot heavy, and no more Sonic games.
     
  13. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    You know, another funny thing about Shadow being dead. If he actually died, wouldn't have been that much more of a surprising WTF kind of awesomeness when he would have inevitably wound up in Sonic Generations anyways?
     
  14. AeonicB

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    If Sonic Team had enough Ritalin for their ADD character story designs, sure! Otherwise, I doubt they could have waited 10 years. Still, having Shadow as an anniversary only character? Awesome idea.