Potential character development that died a long time ago

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by NickonAquaMagna, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. With the advent of 3D gaming, something was made possible that we had yet to see much of in a Sonic game... character development. In the Adventure games, and a few others, we saw some bold new steps taken with certain characters. We saw them pushed in new directions, and who knows where they could wind up if allowed to continue along this path?

    Unfortunately, when 06 came around, Sonic Team threw that out the window. It was pretty much the last game that showed any of the characters doing things that could still surprise us. After that, the writers sorta just... gave up and trapped most of these characters in some sort of purgatory where they never change and only appear in a story as fanservice for those who want to see those characters appear in a game, and NOT to actually contribute something inspired or meaningful to the story. They don't really do anything, they're just... THERE.

    Characters can't exist in a vacuum where nothing new ever happens to them. They need to grow, they need to change. No, this is not as simple as having a character switch sides or something like that. They have to become something bigger than whatever they used to be, to have a greater presence. I'll give some examples of how certain characters could've developed had the writers not locked them all in this state from which they may never advance.

    Tails- In Sonic Adventure, Tails had a lot of potential as a hero, and near the end of his character arc, he manned up and saved the day without any help from Sonic, defeating Eggman in battle. In Sonic Adventure 2, he basically organized the plan to shut down the Eclipse Cannon and became about as competent as we'd ever see him being. In HEROES, THEY TOTALLY THREW THAT OUT THE WINDOW. In that game, he was a nasally, helpless little twerp who was lucky to have his buddies Sonic and Knuckles there to save his tail(s). Sure, he was the strongest character GAMEPLAY wise, once fully leveled up, but in terms of storytelling, all the character development of the Adventure games was undone.

    Sure, he's been helpful to varying degrees since then, and we haven't seen any interpretation of him that could be called quite as offensive as that of Heroes after that, but honestly, "threw together a translator thingamabob that never really worked until the final cutscene" seems like a bit of a step down from "made a counterfeit chaos emerald that could shut down a space station and backfire an Earth shattering doomsday weapon", doesn't it? Hell, at the rate he was growing up, HE could be the leader of a freedom fighters-esque team of his own someday.

    Amy- When we first see Amy in CD, she's just a dumb little fangirl who's probably heard lots and lots of stories about Sonic and wants to meet him. One day, he just HAPPENS to come her way and she's like "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOMAGEEERRRRDISSOAWNEEEEE~K" and seemingly moments later, Metal Sonic nabs her, and Sonic takes responsibility for endangering her and saves her... though it was mostly her fault. When we see her in Sonic Adventure, she's a little older, a little tougher, a little more independent. She does get nabbed again later on, but with a little help from Gamma, she breaks out and has some wacky adventures of her own. By the time her story arc was over, she'd gone from damsel in distress and ass (is it okay for me to say that here or will I get banned for that?) kisser, to independent butt kicker!

    How she could be developed further- Sadly, it was mainly SA2 that really made Amy regress. Sure, she helped near the very end of the game, but for the entire game leading up to her scene with Shadow.... she didn't actually CONTRIBUTE anything to the story. Her role was exactly what we see a lot of in later Sonic games. She was just.... THERE, for the sake of it. At this point, there is NOTHING special about her character. She's just a screechy, annoying little moeblob who follows Sonic around endlessly and is there for no reason other than to cater to weeaboos who think that's all it takes to make a good character. She's been this way for a long while, and may never grow as a character beyond being "kawaii", as if that's a legit character trait. I wanna see her grow MORE independent and tough! I wanna see her on more adventures of her own, actually... you know.... HELPING Sonic! I want her to stop TRYING to woo and impress Sonic, and actually DO something that would give him any reason TO be impressed!

    The closest we ever came to seeing this sort of development was... well.... that one scene in 06. You know, the scene where she defends Sonic from Silver. Yeah, her character was still samey throughout the rest of the story, but that one scene was cool. Oh, and her part of the Final stage, where she faced almost impossible odds against overwhelmingly terrifying enemies in one last bid to save the one who inspired her to become this strong was cool too. Too bad it's kinda, you know, NON CANON. Oh, well.

    Knuckles- Now, sadly, there just isn't much we can do here. Knuckles' story has pretty much ended. His story was in Sonic 3K, and Sonic Adventure 1, since that resolved a lot of things that started with S3K. I mean come on, the whole game seems to center around the past of his people, the presence of the emeralds, all that stuff. After SA2, what more is there to do with him? He was a cool character in the Adventure games, and Heroes, but as soon as the 4Kids VAs came around, he became a dimwitted lumox who's constantly losing that darn Master Emerald, or just neglecting to watch it entirely, leaving his shrine behind for entire games at a time. He isn't the brightest guy out there, sure, but he isn't downright dumb... or at least, he SHOULDN'T be. Now, he's only there to be "that guy who's dumber than the rest and gets angry and gruff all the time and is funny because of that". How degrading. It's implied that when he goes "out for lunch", he summons Chaos to guard the Master Emerald in his place for a little while, but still...

    How he could be developed- Here's an idea- If you want him to leave Angel Island, have there be a REALLY good reason for it. Let's say something terrible happened to it or the Master Emerald itself that rendered the island unable to fly at all anymore? What if it fell in the ocean and there was nothing more he could do about it, and as a result, had to move on, and decided to explore the rest of the world? What if Robotnik or some other villain just obliterated it overnight and Knuckles went on a quest to find whoever's responsible for this? I dunno... there really isn't much that can be done with him, but I'd rather see him go do his own thing than just have him hang around Sonic to make Sonic look smarter by comparison.

    Rouge- When she first appeared, there was no telling when she may stab the other characters in the back. She was suspicious. She was a potential threat to be wary of. After a while, though, that was sort of dropped and we never saw that side of her again, unless it was for the sake of weaseling something she wanted out of another character. She still screws them over sometimes, in little ways, but seems to have an understanding with Sonic and co., now. Like so many other characters, she doesn't really ADD anything at this point. She's just there to take up space.

    How she could be developed- Why not have her start acting friendlier with Sonic and his friends? Not flirty, I mean acting like she actually kinda... cares. It's the only thing that can really be done with her, now that she isn't an enemy of their's. This could easily be done in little ways. For example, what if she was, for whatever reason, drawn to a character like Tails and became more nurturing and supportive of him? Like, let's say there's a scene where the increasingly competent Tails comes up with a brilliant plan to save the day like he would've in Adventure 2, and she praises him for it, maybe becomes a little protective of him in the field, becoming something of a nanny or a surrogate auntie to him? It may sound incredibly silly, but they could do SOMETHING like that to show some sign that she might genuinely give a crap about Sonic and so on and isn't just using them somehow or waiting to use them. If not that, well, then what is she even doing here?

    Robotnik- Robotnik's a great villain. He's actually changed a lot over the years, for better or worse, but at this point, we've pretty much seen everything he can do, unless the writers come up with something bold and new that totally hasn't been seen before.

    Here's an idea. Why not make a story that begins with him acting as villainous as usual, maybe terrorizing an island and burning down villages, and taking over with his robots and all the usual stuff, which convinces Sonic that he's up to no good again. However, at some point later in the story, we find out that Robotnik is actually trying to SAVE the world for once. Let's say there's some impending disaster that's totally out of his control and he's desperately trying to stop it from happening, but he doesn't mind burning a few bridges or terrorizing a few people to get the job done, and that you, in trying to stop him, are just putting the world as a whole in trouble. THAT would be interesting.

    Sonic- At this point, Sonic's character has grown rather stale. The way he talks and acts just makes him seem like some guy who never quite grew up and is forever stuck in that college fratboy mentality. Basically, he acts like a manchild. Now, regardless of how old he actually IS, that's just how he FEELS. And it's not in that loveable, endearing way that a character like Goku is. It's just an obnoxious, boisterous sort of manchild that SHOULD'VE made his classic self cringe at some point or other in Sonic Generations.

    How he... COULD'VE been developed. Had Shadow died for real at the end of SA2, Sonic would be forced to come to grips with the reality that he and his friends are never really safe. Even seemingly unstoppable super-beings like Shadow could be killed at the drop of a hat, and so, Sonic realizes that he can't be so cocky and nonchalant about everything from now on. I'm not saying he has to act dead serious about everything, basically becoming a fusion of himself and Shadow, just.... smarter, and less hammy. It appeared as if Chip was going to to be the catalyst for this in Unleashed, but sadly, subsequent games have made that redundant.

    Omega- Now, say what you will, but I actually LIKE Omega as a character. We don't really see them doing much of anything with him, though. There's not much I can say about him, but I would like to see him get his own personalized story arc, in which he's out to prove himself as the greatest of Robotnik's machines, taking down massive bosses and letting out one liners like "It's all garbage" or "Your success is utterly improbable". I'd like to see him eventually break away from this, though, and find his own identity, not to be Gamma's replacement or whatever.

    Now, as I alluded to, Sonic 2006 was the last game that had significant character development... at least for some of the characters. Take Shadow's story, for example. We haven't talked about him yet much, have we? He, Rouge and Omega really shined. Rouge's proven loyalty to Shadow, showing that she basically sees him as her best friend, and Omega's loyalty to the both of them was really moving, and they just had a much stronger presence than that of Sonic, Tails and Knuckles. By simple comparison, the latter's time together really was just kid's stuff. So, why is that? Because Team Dark actually managed to CONTRIBUTE something new and interesting and MEANINGFUL to the story. You can't just have characters there for the sake of having an appearance and not have them DO anything. They've gotta move forward into bold new territory, find their own path, which WAS happening in 06. It doesn't seem like Shadow's story, Rouge's story, or Omega's story can go anywhere, but that game proved that it could! It showed that there WERE still new things that could be done, that they didn't have to just act the same all the time. ALL the characters should be treated this way, or not even be there at all.

    Let's face it, though. 06 is worthless, otherwise. After 06 bombed, they totally gave up on this whole "character development" thing, you know? We may never see these characters grow beyond the confines that have been placed around them, forever locked in this purgatory of nothingness. Whether you like these characters or not is irrelevant. There's more to this than that. There could be SO MUCH MORE.
  2. JaxTH


    Pudding Deity Oldbie
    Los Angeles
    Jack shit.
    Good fucking god.

    I'd say "Nice first post" but tl;dr.

    EDIT: I don't like the idea of Rouge randomly latching on to Tails.

  3. Well, that was just one example. I'm not shipping the two, I'd just like for them to show more of Rouge's caring side that we've only had a coupla' glimpses of, mostly in that mess 06. I guess she's kinda SUPPOSED to be reserved around others, but still, I wish they'd show her having some soft spot for someone, to make her more likeable and easier to connect to.
  4. InstantSonic


    I'd like to see Sonic Team keep on the steady road to success and keep Sonic to running fast, getting through Eggman's multiple obstacles, and saving his friends. I'd certainly have that rather than giving Sonic's "friends" story/plot attention, getting mixed up in messy potholes, and the series dilution that has plagued the series since it went 3D because of said "friends." Sonic Team has shown they do not have the competence nor time to develop an arc for any of their characters, and it's shown through the years, up until Sonic Colors (which, by the way, is the only 3D Sonic game where you're not fighting some sort of monster or creature at the end).
  5. Well, from what's been said, Colors was the start of an attempt to have a more cohesive and consistent storyline. Everyone being in Generations was basically just a special thing for the 20th anniversary.

    Since the series has become mostly Saturday morning-esque, I don't know if we'll ever see the level of character development that we had in the Adventure games. And we sure as hell won't see anything like what you suggested for Sonic's future character development, as much as I love the idea. Sonic's basically supposed to be the "cool" and "hip" guy, I don't think his character will ever be altered that much.

    Still, character development IS something they should be working on, now that they have more of a chance to do so. Great first post, and welcome to Retro!
  6. Caniad Bach

    Caniad Bach

    is a peanut Member
    I liked the character development in the Adventure games, Shadow was dead. It was good.

  7. Oh, I'm not objecting to Sonic Team being called out for their incompetence. That's the whole point of this topic. They've utterly failed to really give these characters usefulness or depth beyond their earliest attempts, and this is more about what COULD'VE been than what could be since they don't seem to be able to give us this sort of character development nowadays. The "steady" way the games are now will just have to be the next best thing.

    Thanks. I'm going to avoid posting too many replies like this, otherwise I'll blow all my chances to post in a day and probably won't become a member beyond those first twenty posts, so I'm mostly going to focus on starting more threads like this and hope the mods will be satisfied with my performance. For the moment, I hope this thread has made a good first impression. I'll just have to stay on track if I want to have a lasting presence. I can't help being a little cautious.
  8. BystanderLC


    You know, I agree. And I bet the majority of Sonic fans also agree that character and story development has died.

    Eggman had a seriously nice machine that could stop a Super Sonic in Unleashed. That was a seriously nice start for a plot, but it went downhill. I want to see Eggman's powerful advantage like that again.

    But hey. You know what's crazy? Really crazy?
    Eggman's trapped with his younger self in limbo.

    Edit: Need to put something in spoilers
  9. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    I'll find the old avatar eventually Member
    Working on my art!
    Personally I feel like that opens up all new possibilities

    particularly for classic Sonic. Think about it, Classic Robotnik most likely goes back in time eventually, so who's to say if Modern Eggman didn't tell his younger self all the things he fucked up on. Robotnik could go back and try all new ideas now that he knows his other ones were vast failures anyways. Unfortunately, I bet they'd never do that. Alternately Classic Robotnik may go back and get his teaching degree
  10. InstantSonic


    Possibly... endless possibilities...?
  11. Caniad Bach

    Caniad Bach

    is a peanut Member
    Like Doctor Robotnik's Schoolhouse? I'd buy that.
  12. ICEknight


    Researcher Researcher
    I must say, I enjoyed the cartoony scripts of Colors and Generations much better than both Sonic Adramaventures.

    Having followed Sonic's Classic days since year one, and after experiencing every modern game except for 2006 (I've seen more than enough of it), I just found him more "at home" in the last two games.
  13. TheKazeblade


    "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect" Member
    The only character development I'd possibly want to see is in the core characters, really. Leave it to Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Eggman.

    I've always wanted Sega to remember the fact that, really, Sonic's kind of a douche. That's what I loved so much about the Sonic OVA. In a lot of it, or at least at the beginning, he's a jerk to Tails and the Old Man, but he knows the difference between Tails being annoying and when he's really in trouble, and during the latter, his true character shows. His douchebagginess and his selflessness were balanced brilliantly in the OVA.

    As for Tails, I think we've seen a bit of character progression in Colors. He's not as young and starry-eyed about Sonic anymore, and has started to see him less as a hero to be emulated, and more like an older brother who, while still cool, still has his stupid and laughable moments, and is not really as infallible as he may have seemed at first. I would like to see that taken to the next level. What if, now that Tails is getting older, jaded and unsurprised by Sonic's heroism, and annoyed by how much of a jerk he can be, what if he actually straight up confronts Sonic about it and leaves for a while? Like, they get in an argument and go separate ways for a while. Sonic can no longer reach and go to places he could have without Tails, and begins to miss him and sees he was wrong. Tails would likewise know that, regardless of Sonic's shortcomings, he's his best friend, and a stupid disagreement isn't enough to change it. I'm not saying that Tails should be an angsty teenager and crap. Pixar films like Up actually do this quite well, and I think the Sonic and Tails dynamic would lend itself nicely to such a thing.

    As for Knuckles, I've always felt that the Archie comics do an awesome job of fleshing him out between his appearance and issue #56. He starts out hating Sonic's guts, and wanting to kick him off the floating island. After they work together, he still doesn't like the guy, but he doesn't hate him either. It's not until after they work together to defeat Mammoth Mogul at the risk of losing the entire planet that they go from begrudging allies to full-blown friends. And even then, they still have their spats, because, again, Sonic's a douche, and Knuckles is a hard-headed guy.

    I feel like the games missed the step between begrudging allies and friends. We go from enemies in Sonic 3K to friendly rivals in Sonic Adventure, which is fine, but we have no transition between the Adventure games' allied but still not friends dynamic and the full-out "Super Power of Teamwork BFF" Knuckles in Heroes. I think that his dynamic with Sonic and Tails could be brought back a bit and try and bridge that gap more successfully.

    As for Eggman, I really don't know how I'd like to see him progress, but again, the Archie comics have done a good job at balancing out his goofy and evil sides, where he's exhasperated and annoyed by Sonic and makes stupid mistakes and creations, but at the same time, he's literally ready to remove limbs and take control of character's minds recently, and is straight up cold with Snively, leaving him to rot in a little pod, where no one will hear from him again. That balance is perfect.
  14. Aerosol


    FML and FU2 Member
    Not where I want to be.
    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    I'm glad the character development is over, for the most part. Character development means that characters stories will end. All I want its Sonic being a douchey hero, Tails being a snarky genius kid, and Eggman being awesomely insane. Some similarly two-dimensional personalities for the rest of the cast would be fine too.
  15. Palas


    Don't lose your temper so quickly. Member
    I'm definitely not against character development, especially now that they did try to do it anyway. But I find Sonic Colors' and Generations' plot so bad they are offensive. Not becase of what they try to do, but it's just that they do it poorly. It's not the jokes, it's not the lack of character development. It's just that the plot is so narrow that they have to resort to overexposition to make it look like an actual plot. So either they drop this bullshit of trying to look epic or they actually use the time of the cutscenes for something worth it.
  16. ashthedragon


    Dragon Team Researcher
    Sonic Paradise & Sonic Ages
    Great first post!! I can't be more in line with you: for me, the sonic "dark days" are not the era between heroes and unleashed, but the games since unleashed. That, colors ( especially colors) and generations seems like a step backwards to me. yes, they might be more polished gameplay wise ( and well...I really don't like the linearity of this latest games, and the 2D-3D mechanics. Make games 2D, OR 3D. do not mix them). Sonic has become a cartoon of his former self, even in the classics there was a sense of epicism around who now is completely gone.Sonic is a jock now, a parody of himself. and I hate that.

    To me, both adventure games were the best "sonic", history and personality wise. Since then, it went downward.
  17. InstantSonic


    As if something like Sonic Colors wasn't taking from what has already been done in the series, vis-a-vis Sonic CD, except it had the kidnapping of Amy Rose by Metal Sonic and "time travel."
  18. Overlord


    ...did we just switch realities? Moderator
    Berkshire, England
    Learning Cymraeg
    If you're playing a video game mainly for the plot, you're doing it wrong. Sonic Unleashed, Colours & Generations (moreso the latter 2) are far superior to Heroes, SA2 & 06, and anyone who thinks otherwise really is deluding themselves.

    Besides, the story style of Colours & Generations suits the character far better than edgey furry dramas.
  19. Nova


    オ カ エ リ ナ サ λ Site Staff
    I've got to agree with Overlord here. Trying to characterize the cast and add depth to the story never, ever ended well. Sonic Adventure 2 may be a fun game to play if you've got nostalgia goggles on (I certainly have and that's not necessarily a bad thing), but I can see the flaws. Trying to make these characters have emotions and develop on such a level requires serious storylines that have just never melded well with the core Sonic principles. If you ask me, we've got it as good as we're ever gonna get right now. :v:
  20. Palas


    Don't lose your temper so quickly. Member
    Sonic CD has an exposition that must last, I don't know, five minutes if you count the opening and the ending. Plus, the game doesn't outright tell you what's the villain's plot, let alone over and over. Sonic 3 & Knuckles is like that, too.