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PoC: Homing attack/jumpdash in Sonic 2

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Hitaxas, Jan 26, 2009.

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  1. Hitaxas

    Hitaxas

    Retro 80's themed Twitch streamer ( on hiatus) Member
    Aerolite previously released the S3K hack with homing attack in it. I also had some help from Shobiz (You're seriously awesome).

    The code has been sitting inside of Sonic: Super Deformed's asm file for months now.

    I admit, the code is not perfect. In fact, I had to modify various other parts of the asm file in order to fix some bugs that would otherwise be present. Such as flying sky-high if you HA onto a monitor or enemy. Getting the X and Y speeds just right is a pain, any faster, it is too fast, any slower...you get the point.

    I threw in the S3K trailing images into the HA, only because I think it looks quite awesome.

    Anyway, enough of my small rant.

    Here's the download link ---> S2 with Homing attack

    EDIT: Newer version with mentioned bugs fixed can be found in this post
     
  2. Spanner

    Spanner

    The Tool Member
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    Nice work, except that if you use the Homing Attack on the EHZ boss it crashes and plays Casino Night Zone's music.
     
  3. Hitaxas

    Hitaxas

    Retro 80's themed Twitch streamer ( on hiatus) Member
    Using which emulator? This has been tested in Kega Fusion, in which it has no such crash.
     
  4. Spanner

    Spanner

    The Tool Member
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    Sonic Hacking Contest
    This was tested on Gens+.
     
  5. D.A. Garden

    D.A. Garden

    & Knuckles Member
    Very nice. I do like it, except there are a few bugs. You can still go to really high heights by jumping above a monitor and homing attacking it, the EHZ Boss crashed every time I tried to homing attack him and the ARZ boss doesn't turn up.
     
  6. Hitaxas

    Hitaxas

    Retro 80's themed Twitch streamer ( on hiatus) Member
    Which version? I just tested on Gens+ 0.0.9.61, and it runs fine. Besides the ARZ boss not showing up... which I am not sure what might be causing that.

    Edit: Crash is due to trailing images and invincibility hating each other.
     
  7. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

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    I got a fun bug.

    If you jump dash while Super Sonic, the screen flashes, freezes, and then comes back with the palette all shot to hell.

    This is in Gens + 0.0.9.61
     
  8. Jimmy Hedgehog

    Jimmy Hedgehog

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    I got that VERY same thing on Fusion. And even after palette messing, it still freezes, and Sonic flashes blue and returns to yellow (as if transforming again) for a second before going how it's supposed to. It's only when it jump dashes with nothing in range though.
     
  9. Hitaxas

    Hitaxas

    Retro 80's themed Twitch streamer ( on hiatus) Member
    Oh yeah, I forgot to remove that. Thing is, the flash would work correctly in S1... But in S2 it causes problems with the level palettes.


    Edit: I edited the OP, some bug fixes.
     
  10. Alriightyman

    Alriightyman

    I am back... from the dead! Tech Member
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    0101001101101111011011100110100101100011 00000010: 0101001100000011 01000101011001000110100101110100011010010110111101101110
    I like it. But it would be nice, IMO, if the air speed cap was removed to allow him to get an extra boost when doing a JD. Otherwise, Great work! :objection:
     
  11. Copornocus

    Copornocus

    Burnin' my dread Member
    It is my firm belief that the homing attack should not be featured in 2D Sonic games. It just makes things way too easy.

    But it seems like you did a nice job programming it in.
     
  12. The file seems to be corrupted.
     
  13. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    Man, this is so impressive! Where did you get the idea for after-images trailing behind you when you do a homing attack?! That's incredibly original! Good job! ^_____^

    Yeah, I'm not particularly impressed. Ignoring the fact that the presence of the speed cap hinders proper use of the move, your execution is dull and listless with the fatigue of a longstanding career of unoriginality. You ripped off the Megamix control scheme for your hack, and now you try and come in with some half-assed implementation of the homing attack like it's impressive? You said yourself that you got all kinds of help from shobiz; indeed, I remember the original code doing most of the work for you.

    I think this topic is more or less pointless outside of trying to make a cheap attempt at both obtaining tech membership and trying to appear fresh and original, getting mindless praise for it in the process. Megamix may be canceled, but that doesn't mean it's open to being mirrored in every imaginable way without anyone giving a damn. I feel insulted, and the other people on the team who pioneered those ideas feel insulted.

    I understand the homing attack is not an original concept, but come the fuck on. This is just ridiculous.
     
  14. Hitaxas

    Hitaxas

    Retro 80's themed Twitch streamer ( on hiatus) Member
    So did Aerolite, if I recall. And he was granted automatic Tech member.

    And, no. I am not trying to rip off Megamix in any way,shape,form, etc. Not here, not in SSD. So get that ridiculous speculation out of your head.
     
  15. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    Yeah, the difference being that shobiz didn't do the entire thing for him. I saw your original code—it was a complete fucking mess, and he fixed it all for you. You've sure confirmed my suspicion that this was a cheap attempt at getting Tech Membership in a similar reign as Aerolite's case, though.

    Too bad you failed to notice the core difference here—his was in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, not Sonic 2. You know, a game that's rarely hacked, rarely documented, and actually takes a brain to make something decent in? Yeah, that.

    Really, then? So explain why Sonic and Shadow's control schemes are almost exactly the fucking same in both Megamix and your hack? The Triple Trouble-esque rolling-in-mid-air? My fucking idea. The homing attack? My fucking idea. That exact combination of moves all together in one control scheme? My. Fucking. Idea.

    And don't give me that "they're just from other games you can't rip them off!!!" bullshit either, because anyone with a mild sense of observation can tell that none of the concepts pioneered in Megamix were even considered for inclusion in hacks before the release of Megamix. Suddenly there's a slew of hacks with music choices just like those in Megamix, all using the same features and similar aesthetic art choices. Yeah, that's sure a real fucking coincidence. It's not that it's using art that Megamix also used as much as it's using with the exact same combination of assets in the exact same context.

    It's not ridiculous speculation—it's fact. No matter how much you try and deny it, you've got to be fucking shitting me if you think I'm going to buy the claim that you didn't aim to clone features from Megamix. For fucks sake, I've seen chatlogs of you when you referred to implementing features in your hack as "that move from Megamix."

    People always say that imitation is supposed to be the highest form of flattery; I think it's the highest form of utter irritation. What the fuck original games are we supposed to play in the games industry when every game just uses the same concepts over and over again with little change or incentive to play anything else? The point is to be unique--it's not a goddamn cock fighting contest to who can make the best technically impressive hack.

    A concept can only be fresh once; when you abuse that and jump on the bandwagon, you get every hack with SCAA art, spin dash, and the speed cap removed, paired with some extremely sub-par layouts and horribly clashing palettes. I'd hardly call that "fresh and interesting"--I'd call it a generic pile of rehashed bullshit. It's not original, and it's not fun. It fucking sucks.

    I don't know if I really have a point with this post, but I think it's really, really sad when hacking turns into a gigantic popularity contest with no actual substance behind design choices. Hell, the popularity isn't even a good thing—I get like 15 YouTube messages from complete dumbshits about how they "can't open Megamix 4.0" or some other equally retarded crap. Jesus, is it really hard to open an ISO in an emulator? Why the fuck are you asking me? Leave me the hell alone.

    Bleh.
     
  16. JennyTablina

    JennyTablina

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    Hurrah Homing works in another Sonic Game! :objection:

    Though seriously, why show this off? Shoehorning random moves from other games into a Sonic game as-is doesn't really work. Sonic 2 isn't designed to use such an attack and it shows

    Plus you've got Sonic homing in on ANY object it seems. He occasionally homes in on bullets instead of the badniks or plain misses. Plus the homing seems to like going downwards more than anything. Most of that is just the fact its Sonic 2 and the level designs don't have a homing attack in mind
     

  17. Sonic Advance 2 had homing attack, and if I recall Sonic Advance 3 has the 'air cancel' So not really your idea, it's in a 2D game. But yeah, putting it all together is YOUR 'trademark' so to speak.
    Now that he released this S2R is totally cancelled =P.
     
  18. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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  19. It's in 2D games, so porting say, JUST homing attack, isn't an auto megamix rip off. However as I said, putting those things together JUST AS IT IS in megamix is a rip off.



    Edit: I don't want to start an argument, but my comment still stands. Steal one thing that's in megamix and other games = not a rip off. Steal everything that's in megamix = rip off.


    Edit 2: Hitaxas, quite smart. QUITE. SMART. /sarcasm/
     
  20. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    Which was my entire point in the first place. You'd have to be ignorant to say that I created the homing attack—I didn't, and I don't claim to. But even in this standalone ROM I see glaring ripoffs.

    Hell, the after-image thing? It's something Stealth did of his own accord after optimizing the after-image routines to lag significantly less in the engine. He thought it looked cool, and we agreed. We added random after-image effects on other moves that exerted a boost of speed, too—the peel-out, the jump dash, et al. Megamix 4.0 gets released, and now suddenly after-images are used in the same exact context here. Hmmmmm.

    (It just occurred to me while writing this that a similar effect may have been used in the Advance games, but I'm not positive regarding this. If nothing else, the connection wasn't intentional—my story is entirely true.)

    I don't think I'm being unreasonable here. All of Team Megamix literally put our heart, soul, time, effort, and genitals into this project—all without a dime to our name. We just wanted to make a new Sonic game that both showed off the feats possible with ROM hacking by introducing new, innovative concepts and fitting it all together in a package that was, at its very core, fun. To see all that creative talent and innovation leeched off by other people, implemented, and shown off as if it was some sort of accomplish on their own part is literally a slap in the face—at least to us. It's not cool, it's discouraging, and it's irritating.
     
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