Paper Sonic

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by VectorCNC, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. VectorCNC


    CNC Sculpture/Artwork
    Anyone else noticed how the current controversy surrounding the Paper Mario series is somewhat analogous to the Sonic franchise? I have to admit it sort of feels nice to see another fanbase confronted with a similar reality, except not because I loved Paper Mario :(


    -The fanbase is fractured into a large group of fans of the original format, and a group of fans of the newer format.
    -The newer fans claim older fans are just nostalgic and unappeasable.
    -The developers seem more concerned with attracting new younger fans, and indifferent to the desires of their older fans.
    -While the new games are aesthetically pleasing, they lack both the level of quality and mechanics the series was founded on.
    -The developers are using the series as a sandbox for testing new ideas which aren't fully fleshed out and tend to be gimmicky.
    -Older fans continue to hold out for a return to the original formula, only to be let down with each new iteration, and the disheartening prospect of another long wait for the next installment, losing hope.
    -Fear the franchise will die because developers interpret a lack of interest in the new games as a lack of interest in the series as a whole.
    -Apparent ignorance for what made the franchise a success to begin with.

    Some of these overlap one-another, but these were just what I could think of at the moment…

    (I'm not stating these comparisons are exclusive between the two IPs)
  2. Sir_mihael


    I feel like a lot of those points hit close to home with a lot of IPs. Seeing 'Young Conker' recently made me realize how badly RARE's characters are being handled my Microsoft. Of course when that character doesn't generate the cash due to being so flamboyantly different, it'll be all too easy to blame the IP itself.

    This most definitely reminds me of Capcom and Konami with Darkstalkers and Zone of the Enders respectively. The fans already own the old games, so re-releasing them again won't generate new sales. Sadly the business types attribute that to there being a legit lack of interest in the franchises as a whole, when in truth, fans would kill for a Z.O.E 3 and a Darkstalkers 4.
  3. Fenrir


    Eh. Member
    Apologies for the wall of text and light bump, but I found this topic pretty interesting as someone whose favorite game happens to be TTYD.

    It's not an uncommon comparison as mentioned above, but I feel there's quite a few key differences between the current Paper Mario stigma and the overall Sonic fanbase as a whole.

    For one thing, part of the complaints for modern Paper Mario (It's bizzare saying that for a series almost a decade younger than Sonic...) isn't so much that it's trying something new. Rather, it's that it's not doing anything new, not on a surface level anyway.

    I mean yeah, the Sticker gimmicks aren't appealing to me in the slightest. Thing is, I could deal with ALL of it if we would just have something substantial to go along with it.

    Take Super Paper Mario for example. It tried something different, and it had some notable flaws because of it, but it was trying a new style of gameplay AND a new setting and story. Speaking purely from opinion, I think it's the greatest story a Mario game has ever told. I'll play 64 and TTYD before even considering SPM again, but as an experience alone I think it was well worth my time.

    Sticker Star and, from what we know so far, Color Splash, fail to hit both marks to the point of it being baffling. The battles are annoying and downright pointless, but if they were to refine them into something more than just "haha Stickers, get it, because everything is Paper", like maybe taking a M&L Partners in Time approach and having stickers be purchasable bonus attacks, it MIGHT work. But unlike SPM, it doesn't have anything to fall back on. It's quite literally New Super Paper Mario Bros. Same level progression, no interesting characters, overall nothing that every mainstream Mario game hasn't done a dozen times already. And Color Splash, despite a 'new' setting, doesn't seem to be fixing either of these issues.

    Summarized, Paper Mario fans play the games for two reasons most of the time: for the gameplay and the story/setting/writing. If they wanted NSMB, they'd play NSMB. When neither of those points are fufilled, people aren't going to be happy.

    When you look at Sonic, it's not really the exact same issue. It's not nearly as often that I see a Sonic fan complain about Sonic following the same tired formula because story isn't really the foremost issue when it comes to the franchise. We could have an absolutely trash story, but frankly, most of us are used to that by now. But if the GAME is solid, then it wouldn't really matter because Sonic has never exactly been a frontrunner in the story department.

    That's not to say story shouldn't mean anything when it comes to Sonic, but the main point is that we have so many other issues to think about before considering it. When people praise Colors and Generatons, maybe they'll have a passing mention on their opinion of the writing, but above all they love them primarily because they're fun games.

    This is more me speaking personally, but if all of Sonic's friends were playable and fun to play AS, I really wouldn't care less if their personality was about as two dimensional as paper. It's one of the few things I give Black Knight credit for actually.

    Anyway I think I'm rambling at this point. My point is that Paper Mario attracts people for very different reasons that Sonic does. Sonic has so many ideas, gimmicks and genres under his belt that he divides fans based on gameplay. Not to mention all the different continuitys and universes the series has both in and out of games. Paper Mario's issues is a bit more easy to identify, because it only has 4 games under its belt, going on 5. Fans are divided for fairly different reasons.

    The moral of the story is the moment you step out of line with what your series is known for, a rift is inevitable.
  4. GeneHF


    SEGA-ier than you'll potentially ever be. Site Staff
    Scenic Studiopolis
    Complete Global Conquest
    There are times I forget that Colors, Lost World, and Generations had a story.

    Egg Shuttle was the best thing to happen to Colors, though a 45~ stage gauntlet is pretty brutal.
  5. Gametoons


    After some thinking, wouldn't it be great if someone made a paper sonic platformer fan game with RPG elements?
  6. Sonic Warrior TJ

    Sonic Warrior TJ

    O'Doyle Rules Member
    I drew this a gazillion years ago, as an idea of what a 2D Sonic RPG's battle system might be like. The idea is that with a random encounter comes random geography, presenting different ways to defeat enemies.
  7. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

    A wise guy eh. I know how to DEAL with wise guys. Member
    The Land of Waldos
    Sonic Utopia, Sonic Overture
    That looks great, but I'm confused as to how that works; is it supposed to be like Super Paper Mario? It looks more like a platformer with RPG elements rather than a turn based battle RPG.
  8. Sonic Warrior TJ

    Sonic Warrior TJ

    O'Doyle Rules Member
    I was imagining something close to the Paper Mario battle system, but with a little more interactivity in fights. It's a messy idea, maybe more fitting of an Action RPG with no random encounters.
  9. Fenrir


    Eh. Member
    Silly Retro folk!

    We already HAD a 2D Sonic RPG with platforming elements!

    ...It was also about as bland as paper, so that makes it Paper Sonic right?
    Not too bad of an idea. I can almost picture the environmental stuff as something like the Bros Attacks from the Mario & Luigi games, specifically Dream Team: you can select it at the cost of FP/MP/BP/whatever, and Sonic would run back to use a random environment as a means to gain speed and hit harder. It could even be more powerful if you properly use that momentum thing Sega likes to forget exists! :V
  10. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

    A wise guy eh. I know how to DEAL with wise guys. Member
    The Land of Waldos
    Sonic Utopia, Sonic Overture
    I think it would be neat if the overworld had a bunch of level elements already, and what's chosen as the battle ground is based on whatever's nearby when the encounter starts.
    Thus if enemies chase you on the overworld like they do in Paper Mario, you could lead them to a particular place for an advantage depending on the enemy. Conversely, some places might be more difficult to work with. Some enemies might have more unusual patterns, like following a path or trying to run away.
    Of course there's all kinds of design difficulties with such a system, but it's a fun thought.