Discussion in 'Project: Sonic Retro (Archive)' started by Chimpo, Jan 22, 2009.
The city zone was just an upgraded level from the Game Gear.
And the tropical zone is a rip of Palmtree Panic with some Isolated Isle thrown in for good measure, depending on which version you're going by. They both needed a creative overhaul; the city was just prettier to look at and actually had something in the way of a tileset going.
Maybe you should dig in the old Sonic 4 forum that Qjimbo created, too. If it still exists.
Anyway, thanks for giving me a new hope for this project.
<!--quoteo(post=271128:date=Jan 22 2009, 05:33 AM:name=Phoebius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phoebius @ Jan 22 2009, 05:33 AM)
Looks like a tileset to me. :P
Damn, I still prefer that version of the tropical zone...
About damn time this happened. Nothing could get done. There's a reason I seldom posted in the topics. Hell, half the ideas I put up that had concrete art, nobody even said anything about, it was just random bullshitting and too much clutter. Couldn't even get a response as to whether I should've kept going with a concept or abandoned it, so, I'm not about to do a bunch of shit that could all be for nothing! Crack that whip, Chimpo. Because its become clear that its what needs to be done if anything is to come of this. You're correct, in that any one of our skilled members could've had a level done by now.
About time someone said it. And again, we've seen that tropical zone already. Old news, I still don't know why the hell that thing isn't being redone from scratch like it should be. Enough of redoing old stuff. Nothing from previous hacks, no remakes of gamegear games or sonic cd, how about something NEW?!
Going by Chimpo's leadership I'd think he'd notice this eventually. If you wanna talk about getting nowhere, the city level and tropical were prime suspects.
Again? You know that the only thing kept from my hack was the basic hexagon shape, and a couple of the clouds? I redid everything else from scratch....
Anyway, I don't care if it's used or not. I'm just offering up my work to be used in this project if wanted/needed.
Yes! I almost lost my interest in this project, because mess and metalsonic shit.
Everyone, work hard with tropical zone :P
Nice job Chimpo!
I'm so glad that Chimpo is the leader now.. and I am really liking what he is doing. The idea of working on one level at a time, starting with Tropical Zone is the best idea yet. That should have been done in the first place. Go Chimpo!!
Shouldn't we draw out the level designs for these levels first? I believe Yasuhara drew out the level designs on graph paper first. Then the developers, in turn, would base the tile sets around whatever he drew on the graph paper. Isn't there a similar way we could approach this method?
Graph paper is a pretty good idea.
I, personally, don't think it matters what order you go in, whether graph paper comes first or second. Just, uh, do stuff or whatever. I've done it both ways and it hasn't really been a problem.
Point. Personally, I think it's best to first finalize the visuals with some basic flat tiles that'd be common to every zone, which is mostly what's been done here. Then I'd sketch out a rough level design, not paying much attention to the fine details, but just suggesting the overall feel of the zone's flow; Take Collision Chaos, for example, which is characterized by sudden spikes in the landscape with steep slopes, and a large emphasis on bouncing around. Then I'd tailor the following tiles and objects to reflect these characteristics, and once I had a relatively complete tileset, I'd start pasting the tiles together according to the initial sketch until a proper level layout materialized.
But then, that's only how I'd approach it. For level design with S3K's level of depth, I'd think one would have to exercise a certain degree of spontaneity with the tile placement, and this sort of setup would allow for that. Conforming to a complete sketch of the layout would put a stopper on said spontaneity and might lead to the creation of unnecessary tiles, while level design without a guide would wind up flat and aimless. Both aspects would have to be fleshed out concurrently. Either way, whoever's in charge of the level design should probably get to work on a sketch right now.
Call me naive, but being a newcomer to this thread I wasn't entirely aware work wasn't being done by any programmers. Seeing so much contribution and level art I was just under the impression people submitted ideas/concept art and programmers were taking the best and politely leaving out the worst. In the meantime I figured somebody (at least one person) was designing the first demo levels for general feedback.
The fact that this wasn't the case bemuses me a little, but maybe its because I didn't understand that by "community project" the general assumption was that people were expected to fulfill all of this as some kind of "psychic mind".
Now I understand what was going on though, I like the way this new thread has been structured. One zone at a time is a good idea. If people can't/don't wish to contribute to a single zone they can design art and concepts for the later zones and save them for when its neccessary. Its much quicker and more effective that way.
However, whilst the single thread is good in the sense that it deviates from mindless tangents there are still a few things I feel need addressing.
I in particular like contributing as you no doubt have guessed to boss, gimmick and badnik concepts. However, after reading the single thread for Tropical Zone...it feels like because the whole thread is so dedicated to level art...posting such concept art will be misplaced, deviating from the conversations and provoking several tangents in the same thread. So, might it not perhaps be best to include a seperate thread dedicated to gimmicks/badniks/bosses for the Tropical Zone? I see the same thing has been done with character sprites and music.
Also, whilst I understand the importance of avoiding meaningless conversations, the lack of the general thread for the entire project seems wrong somehow, as if direction and feedback for the whole game has somehow disappeared. For example, I raised a point regarding gameplay which I felt was neccessary as it effected the whole game, including Tropical Zone. It was a small point. It was regarding Insta-Shield, but it was one that effected the whole game none-the-less. Now though, the lack of the general feedback thread means simple, polite enqueries or suggestions like this cannot be included for the purposes of the bigger picture.
So, would it be possible to bring back the general feedback thread but impose strict rules or regulations upon it, if of course the worry is that people will get too far ahead of themselves?
It just feels that otherwise, if people get TOO scared of the speculative side then we may just have spiralled from one vice to another.
I knew I forgot something.
I like the new direction of the project, because we finally have a specific target.
But, for how much the first zone can be considered important, there is something else, in my opinion, that is equally, or maybe even more, important:
The full Sonic Sprite SheetWhy?
First, whatever kind of demo version we will ever do, we need a full sheet for Sonic, otherwise it will have no playable characters. Second, Sonic also decides the general style of the other characters art and of everything not related to level art. Third, every other character sprite sheet will be based over Sonic's one.
In the end is not something very different from working only on one zone at time. However the main difference is that if the full Sonic sprite sheet is a long term target. Not every spriter is good with both character art and level art, and this happens because there is a mayor difference in the general style of the stage art and of the character art. But that also means that if someone can't contribute to the first stage, it doesn't mean he/she can't contribute on the Sonic sprite sheet.
Everything circles around Sonic in his games, that's why I think that finalizing his sprite sheet is important.
After all he is the first object in the classic games ;P
Lucky for us, we are very close to the final Sonic sprite. What I'm saying now, however is to work only on Sonic until we finish his sprite sheet, and do not touch Tails and Knuckles before completing it. Yes, they will be in the game, but that doesn't mean they must be completed today. Scrap Tails. Scrap Knuckles. Scrap Metal Sonic. None of them matter if Sonic is not complete.
In my opinion, in a week we must reach the true final Sonic sprite. And then, before working on something else, we must finish his sprite sheet.
A placeholder sprite sheet (e.g. S3&K's) can be enough for a concept demo, at least to fill in the gaps while the final sprite sheet gets completed.
But yeah, I agree that the Sonic sprite should be quite a priority.
I thought the sprite sheet was pretty much a given.
but yeah, we need to finish that bad boy soon.
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