Original Sonic 1 proto lost, meant for inclusion in SMC

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MathUser, Jun 27, 2011.

  1. Tanks

    Tanks

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    <!--quoteo(post=600538:date=Jun 28 2011, 08:30 PM:name=Sik)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sik @ Jun 28 2011, 08:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600538">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=600505:date=Jun 28 2011, 10:38 PM:name=Tanks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tanks @ Jun 28 2011, 10:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600505">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah. It wasn't gonna be in SMC. Unless that was something they were thinking about VERY early on. We have a mid development demo, video of an early build, and PACHUKA to attest to this. From what it sounded like though, they put a TON of effort into finding it, which would have likely meant it was going to be in there, but there's simply no evidence of it. Sorry Naka. I call bullshit. :/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->What if they didn't put the menu entries in the code because they were unable to get ahold the file? Maybe they were waiting to find it to add its data into the program =P
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That's just the thing. We have the old menu entries which list games not even included like, off the top of my head, Dragon Warrior, as well as a few others. If a Sonic 1 proto was to be there, I would at least expect to see some other form of prototype content, yet its not there. I think, if anything, it was proposed that the protos be included, but I doubt any real effort was ever put into implementing them.
     
  2. Sik

    Sik

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    Those games could have been there at some point then removed, you know.
     
  3. Tanks

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    <!--quoteo(post=600577:date=Jun 28 2011, 10:23 PM:name=Sik)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sik @ Jun 28 2011, 10:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600577">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Those games could have been there at some point then removed, you know.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That's not the point. Sonic prototypes are simple to find. We have proof, thanks to the drx proto dump, that SEGA had access to a lot of their proto material. If a Sonic 1 proto was planned on being added there, I'd expect there to be Sonic 2's at least, seeing as its the most iconic. With what we know was a very short deadline, thanks to the story on the lack of Sonic CD, it's safe to say something like this might have only been a musing during a brainstorming meeting and probably got no further than that. I'd like to see if PACHUKA is willing to weigh in on this though since he had insider access to SMC at one point.

    Also, I don't want the SMC thing to be a distraction for something even more interesting though, like the 7 layer scrolling claim. It can be done according to most people in IRC. It makes me wonder if Sonic 1 was actually, in its early stages, a sort of Genesis tech demo. I mean, let's be honest, where would you ever fucking need 7 layers of scrolling in a Sonic game, or any game for that matter?
     
  4. Sik

    Sik

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    <!--quoteo(post=600581:date=Jun 29 2011, 02:47 AM:name=Tanks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tanks @ Jun 29 2011, 02:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600581">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, I don't want the SMC thing to be a distraction for something even more interesting though, like the 7 layer scrolling claim. It can be done according to most people in IRC. It makes me wonder if Sonic 1 was actually, in its early stages, a sort of Genesis tech demo. I mean, let's be honest, where would you ever fucking need 7 layers of scrolling in a Sonic game, or any game for that matter?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't think they meant seven simultaneous layers, they were probably your average parallax effect where different lines scroll at different speeds.
     
  5. Rika Chou

    Rika Chou

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    <!--quoteo(post=600581:date=Jun 29 2011, 06:47 AM:name=Tanks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tanks @ Jun 29 2011, 06:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600581">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=600577:date=Jun 28 2011, 10:23 PM:name=Sik)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sik @ Jun 28 2011, 10:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600577">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Those games could have been there at some point then removed, you know.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sonic prototypes are simple to find.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You have got to be kidding.
     
  6. Sparks

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    You're calling bullshit on something that's straight from the horses mouth.

    :psyduck:
     
  7. <!--quoteo(post=600602:date=Jun 29 2011, 07:43 AM:name=Sparks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sparks @ Jun 29 2011, 07:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600602">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're calling bullshit on something that's straight from the horses mouth.

    :psyduck:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah but I wouldn't call it the most reliable source all the same. One thing you have to remember is that all this game development business is work for these people, and they don't remember every minute detail of everything they do like we wish they would sometimes. I would take them trying to put it in the game with a grain of salt, simply because when Yuji Naka says something like this he's being really casual. He probably legitimately doesn't know where the prototype is, but that doesn't mean its lost, its just locked up some place where he doesn't really worry about it. And the only thing him saying they were going to include it really proves is that the idea was kicked around during the design phase. We can support with prototypes that the idea had to be scrapped fairly early if it was even seriously considered at all, and judging by how casual he is in the interview I'd say the idea was probably canned as soon as it was thrown out. It doesn't make a lot of sense for them to put a prototype in a release like SMC since its trying to have a broad appeal anyway. Your typical fan will unlock it and think "What is this buggy piece of shit?" whereas its a gold mine for us. Too much doesn't add up here for me to call it anything but old people being old.
     
  8. Sparks

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    My impression was it was something that was lightly considered, but quickly tossed once the proto was determined to be missing. I can imagine it didn't get far in pre-production though because of that. Naka could have been referencing a suggestion that was discussed and concluded in one short table sitting.

    These are all just guesses though. This contradicts the "they worked hard to find the software" bit though so eh. Maybe they just dug around the office for a few days with little effort. The world may never know.


    Still, the fact they considered it briefly is what I find pretty cool. As for the protos fate, I feel uncertain. If it's still around though, it's got some good value on it.
     
  9. OSM

    OSM

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    Damn, I would have loved to play this. I hope you guys find it one day out there in the wild.
     
  10. <!--quoteo(post=600610:date=Jun 29 2011, 06:58 AM:name=Sparks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sparks @ Jun 29 2011, 06:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600610">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My impression was it was something that was lightly considered, but quickly tossed once the proto was determined to be missing. I can imagine it didn't get far in pre-production though because of that. Naka could have been referencing a suggestion that was discussed and concluded in one short table sitting.

    These are all just guesses though. This contradicts the "they worked hard to find the software" bit though so eh. Maybe they just dug around the office for a few days with little effort. The world may never know.


    Still, the fact they considered it briefly is what I find pretty cool. As for the protos fate, I feel uncertain. If it's still around though, it's got some good value on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah I pretty much agree. I'm sure the prototype's around somewhere though, if only because SEGA knew Sonic's value far before release, and they'd want to keep their archives on their most important IP in check.
     
  11. That plushie IS pretty cool; I got one a few years back on eBay, he makes a good Christmas tree ornament :)

    <!--quoteo(post=599933:date=Jun 27 2011, 06:56 PM:name=Nora Kisaragi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nora Kisaragi @ Jun 27 2011, 06:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=599933">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That would probably be the Tokyo Toy Show.

    Indeed, Sega unveiled the Mega CD at that show in 1991.

    edit: [​IMG]

    Also from the Tokyo Toy Show 1991. I want that plush more than the prototype itself<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
     
  12. ICEknight

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    <!--quoteo(post=600602:date=Jun 29 2011, 01:43 AM:name=Sparks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sparks @ Jun 29 2011, 01:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600602">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're calling bullshit on something that's straight from the horses mouth.

    :psyduck:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    He also said that they didn't include Sonic CD because of space constraints.
     
  13. GoGoThursday

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    <!--quoteo(post=600411:date=Jun 28 2011, 10:19 PM:name=Yuski)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuski @ Jun 28 2011, 10:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600411">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I remember to someone here long time ago found the sprites of that sign in 8-bit Sonic 1 and was write "Welcome Sonic". But I don't remember the topic's name and who found it =/ Isn't on the wiki also.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I would like to apologise for this - I posted an 8-bit mock-up of the sign (which was in a fan game I was making a few years ago) and jokingly said it was "found in the Sonic SMS rom", with spoiler tags saying I made it. I know a few people were fooled by it and were annoyed, so I'm very sorry!

    It was in a <a href="http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=20657" target="_blank">thread</a> about Cooljerk's theory that Sonic SMS is based on an early version of Sonic MD, which I think is very plausible. It seemed as though Green Hill Zone SMS was changed later to resemble its MD counterpart more closely, with some assets of the alpha-style level being re-used in Bridge Zone. There were many other similarities as well.

    Anyway, I do think it is possible that there is some unseen information about Sonic prototypes on Japanese websites. GeoCities is still up in Japan, and there's bound to be something on someone's personal page. Unfortunately finding such things can be difficult due to the language barrier, the bias towards "bigger" websites in search results and the fact that large photographs and scans are not as common on Japanese websites (which seem to still be in the "Web 1.0" era).
     
  14. Scarred Sun

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    Welp, this.
    Eh, I would just take this with a grain of salt—we know what made it into dev builds of SMC, and obviously a S1 prototype wasn't in there. It could have been one of those things bandied about for a day or two in the planning phase that they realized for whatever reason wasn't doable.

    Thaaaat being said, it also helps to remember that these folks also want to present a certain image and legacy that may or may not in fact be the truth. That's their right to do, but nothing anyone says can really be objectively accurate until you hear from multiple people. We also know outright lies have been told in the past. It's part of why I got so frustrated that Iizuka dodged the "starting at Sega" question again at SOS, because I've heard something decidedly different that I can't really confirm until I hear it from another person.
     
  15. Zakalaks

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    Sorry if someone has posted this before, but you should be able to find most of the existing prototype screenshots for Sonic 1 right here:
    <a href="http://sost.emulationzone.org/sonic_1/index.htm" target="_blank">Click here</a>
    Once again apologies if this has been posted already.
     
  16. Sparks

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    <!--quoteo(post=600635:date=Jun 29 2011, 04:10 AM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Jun 29 2011, 04:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600635">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=600602:date=Jun 29 2011, 01:43 AM:name=Sparks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sparks @ Jun 29 2011, 01:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600602">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're calling bullshit on something that's straight from the horses mouth.

    :psyduck:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    He also said that they didn't include Sonic CD because of space constraints.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->A PC port or the SEGA CD version? If there's any differences.
     
  17. Solaris Paradox

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    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    <!--quoteo(post=600725:date=Jun 29 2011, 12:15 PM:name=Sparks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sparks @ Jun 29 2011, 12:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600725">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=600635:date=Jun 29 2011, 04:10 AM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Jun 29 2011, 04:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600635">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=600602:date=Jun 29 2011, 01:43 AM:name=Sparks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sparks @ Jun 29 2011, 01:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600602">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're calling bullshit on something that's straight from the horses mouth.

    :psyduck:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    He also said that they didn't include Sonic CD because of space constraints.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->A PC port or the SEGA CD version? If there's any differences.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Either way, neither the GC nor PS2 would have had any trouble containing it. By DVD standards, Sonic CD is positively tiny.
     
  18. Black Squirrel

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    hey wiki you're so fine
    <!--quoteo(post=600723:date=Jun 29 2011, 12:08 PM:name=Zakalaks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zakalaks @ Jun 29 2011, 12:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600723">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry if someone has posted this before, but you should be able to find most of the existing prototype screenshots for Sonic 1 right here:
    <a href="http://sost.emulationzone.org/sonic_1/index.htm" target="_blank">Click here</a>
    Once again apologies if this has been posted already.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/Game_Development:Sonic_the_Hedgehog_%2816-bit%29" target="_blank">The Sonic Retro forums is attached to a wiki</a>.
     
  19. Yuzu

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    <!--quoteo(post=600729:date=Jun 29 2011, 05:25 PM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Jun 29 2011, 05:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600729">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=600725:date=Jun 29 2011, 12:15 PM:name=Sparks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sparks @ Jun 29 2011, 12:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600725">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=600635:date=Jun 29 2011, 04:10 AM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Jun 29 2011, 04:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600635">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=600602:date=Jun 29 2011, 01:43 AM:name=Sparks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sparks @ Jun 29 2011, 01:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=600602">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're calling bullshit on something that's straight from the horses mouth.

    :psyduck:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    He also said that they didn't include Sonic CD because of space constraints.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->A PC port or the SEGA CD version? If there's any differences.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Either way, neither the GC nor PS2 would have had any trouble containing it. By DVD standards, Sonic CD is positively tiny.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Keep in mind, the GC's Minidisc is limited to 1.8GB. However I thought the problem with Sonic CD was SEGA's inability to emulate it, which is why the PC version was ported instead for Gems.
     
  20. MrCoconuts

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    Hot damn, that would have been amazing.

    But I don't care about it; I want that fucking plush now