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Discussion in 'General Sega Discussion' started by Jason, Jul 5, 2012.

  1. Bartman3010


    Site Staff
    You really don't know what it is to be a QA tester, do you? QA testing is to ensure there are no severe glitches, crashes or playability issues. How or why would they compare it to the original?
  2. ICEknight


    Researcher Researcher
    It's an issue, anyway. That specific object doesn't render the lightning effects as does everything else on screen, something that somebody should have noticed.
  3. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    I always imagined the people who tested a port compared it to the original lol. I mean, it's a port, not a new game.
  4. Thousand Pancake

    Thousand Pancake

    Being a food you put milk on and then eat in the m Member
    You'll keep looping around the stage until you destroy the Ideya Capture (The jellyfish-looking thing in the middle of each Mare). To destroy the Ideya capture, you must collect 20 blue spheres (or "chips") and then fly into the Ideya Capture. Don't dawdle; if you get hit too many times or run out of time (shown in the top center; there will be a gradually building ringing sound if you're close to running out), you will fall down, lose all your chips and have to trudge to the Ideya Capture or Palace as Elliot or Claris.

    After you destroy the Ideya capture, you have two choices: Return to the Ideya Palace (the gazebo-thing) to progress to the next section, or Mare, or keep going around the stage collecting stuff for more points (getting enough will boost your grade).

    After clearing four sections, or "mares" of a stage, you will get transported to the boss. Be sure to beat it quickly; the faster you beat a boss, the higher your bonus will be for the stage. After you clear a stage, a new icon will appear in the Dream Gate. Select it to go to the next stage.

    Or you could just ignore me and RTFM. Yes, there is actually an in-game manual.
  5. roxahris


    Everyone's a hypocrite. Take my word for it. Member
    Doing anything at all
    A small note, here. The PS2 version of NiGHTS doesn't run at 60FPS - it just runs at 30, with every other frame being a repeat. The PC version, locked at 29FPS, can't really do that.
    Here, take a look at these cheaply made animated GIFs of 60FPS videos slowed down to 15FPS. Wait for the first loop. They pretty much demonstrate the problem. The stuttering happens throughout the and my gameplay, despite my best efforts. It's unlikely Fraps would be the cause - after all, it would probably affect both.

  6. ICEknight


    Researcher Researcher
    EDIT: Disregard, I thought the PS2 GIF was the wrong one.
  7. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    The PS2 in fact seems to run at 60i instead of 30p. Your emulator is de-interlacing the signal, as it shows on PCX2 "Interlaced (field)". Which means it actually is a 30 fps signal but only half of the frame shows each time so it creates some motion blur that suavizes the movement:


  8. Elratauru


    Little Shiny Emurralds Member
    Interesting fact: pretty much every PS2 game runs on interlaced except for quite a few exceptions I could count with my hand. I hate how blurry it looks even when correctly de-interlaced because of that, and this is why I'll always prefer the GCN because it has progressive for pretty much all its games and looks way more sharp/crisp. Also, 640x480 instead of 512x384 that the Ps2 uses most of the time.
  9. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    It's possible to deinterlace a 60i signal so it looks as crisp as 30p as roxharis demonstrated on his gifs, though.
  10. Elratauru


    Little Shiny Emurralds Member
    Of course you can do that, however it will never look as good as a progressive signal would look. Try it out for yourself, run a PS2 game that supports both modes, I'd like to recommend Melty Blod Actress Again for example as it's 2D and pure-sprite based.

    To enable Progressive scan, you need to hold X and Triangle when the game starts, that way it runs at 640p, which looks sharp as any computer game on a normal PC monitor.

    Now try an interlaced setting, with Blend-TFF mode for example, which blends both images so you cant notice the "scanline transition" and you'll see that it blurs the image and doesn't looks as crips as the 640p. You can always try it out using a real ps2 and a VGA monitor.
  11. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    Not true. It doesn't look as crisp because it doesnt seem to blend the half frames to make one, instead they just double the fields so the vertical resolution is actually the half it would be in a 30p signal.

    Just set your emulator to 2x the native resolution.
  12. dsrb


    Well, yeah, but that makes sense, because you're really not meant to be doing it. The only use at all that I can think of for playing as the kids is to visit your Nightopians (the A-Life, forerunners of Chao), hatch otherwise unreachable eggs, etc. Score-wise, it's suicide.
  13. Meat Miracle

    Meat Miracle

    Are you guys seriously comparing how PS2 games look on an emulator that can upscale graphics to 4k UHD and has 3x2 different deinterlace modes coded in by the original author of media player classic?

    Run the thing in full software mode, and compare *that* to the PC version.
  14. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    Was this game recently patched on Steam or something? I accessed the game and it started updating for me!


    If yes, what changed?
  15. Eric Wright

    Eric Wright

    Born into this. Oldbie
    Not wanting to make a new topic thread since this one already exists, I figured I'd post here first...

    I've played the hell out of NiGHTS on the Saturn back in the day, and finally grabbed it on XBLA with their sale (it was $2.50). I realize there were major control issues at release, and even the patch hasn't made it quite as precise and responsive as the original...

    While the rest of the thread was worried about whatever control and visual differences existed between all three versions, I seem to be having a different problem entirely...

    Is it me or did they mess up the "link" timer delay? I feel like I used to maintain link combos of a dozen or more when I was just playing casually, and I know I used to be able to push the combo tally toward 100 on the first course in Spring Valley by skipping the level goal after unlocking the Ideya from its prison. Now I'm lucky if I can maintain 7 or 8 links before the counter resets. Unless loops and orbs/stars are like literally right next to each other, it seems practically impossible to chain anything.

    I don't think I've gotten that bad at the game after all this time... is it just me? It really feels like the whole rhythm and pace of the game is ruined, like it's suddenly more frantic and jerky.

    And I'm not sure I'm super keen on whatever they did to the boss fights, either... I had about ten seconds left on the clock when I beat that fat-ass bunny chick that you have to blast through the walls, I kept tossing her immediately after I would fly into her rather than being able to hold onto her and angle my shot properly.

    Is this just the nature of remade games at this point? A new development team completely oblivious to the nuances of the original experience? I'm getting pretty sick of it... (looking at you, Trying To Roll In The Classic Stages In Sonic Generations)
  16. JaxTH


    Pudding Deity Oldbie
    Los Angeles
    Jack shit.
    Well, it is a port of the PS2 AGES version, which had some problems. Linking being one of them.

    I got used to it in about 3 hours.
  17. OKei


    OKeijiDragon Member
    Video Basement
    Something fun I encountered in the last act of Stick Canyon last year while playing the Steam ver. of Nights. I have a full blog post detailing everything but here's a video I have up on YouTube.

  18. Eric Wright

    Eric Wright

    Born into this. Oldbie
    good lord, I just found myself yelling at my TV in frustration and disgust... it's not just link timer;
    - the collision detection is horrible (both when trying to pick up items and when you happen to graze the ceiling/ground)
    - the jumping when you're claris/eliot on the ground is messed up (I distinctly remember a triple jump, a la Mario 64, that made them go hella far)
    - the normal (non boosting) flying speed is too slow
    - and the grab/attack/toss mechanics during bosses is all kinds of stupid.

    Maybe I'm becoming an old man and just can't adapt to the tiny differences when games are ported/updated... or maybe, as I've been saying about the Wipeout series for YEARS now, the new people working on an old idea just don't understand the nuances about an original idea that made it great in the first place.

    It's actually kind of a little depressing to play through this version after all the time I spent on the Saturn one
  19. Eric Wright

    Eric Wright

    Born into this. Oldbie
    and the fact that I didn't know the fish boss ATTACKED you if you took too long should be some indicator of just how jarring this nonsense is. I literally shouted "WHAT THE ****??" when I see this dude throwing some Sonic 1 Final Zone End Boss energy orbs at me.
  20. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Working on my art!
    It's what happens. People still love the idea but the people who made it moved on years ago. Granted, sometimes people have heart and love that idea, and you get things like Sonic 1, 2, and CD iOS by Taxman, ports that went above and beyond. But sometimes you get cheap cash ins. In this example, it was originally only released in Japan, so that's odd right there, but they threw some minor graphical smoothing on and threw it out to market. The people who made the port don't remember the intricacies that went on when the game was originally made. They don't have the same passion and love, but at the same time, the people who made it don't either. But the fans still do. And then you get franchises that keep on going despite a lack of direction. I mean look no further than Sonic. Same thing.