Another oddity is HPZ having a level select icon at all, considering those were implemented long after the zone had been scrapped. While it can easily be assumed they made the icons long before implementing them, it still kinda raises the question as to why HPZ's was added with the rest.
Just-in-case would be my guess. If they all went in at the same time, better to just spend the small extra effort to put it in just in case management changed their mind on the zone. We know it was cut very late.
Also worth noting that HPZ is the only cut zone to be listed in the post-Wai version level select. I'm guessing that same list of zones was given to the artist who made the icons.
Also the only one to have it's zone title mapped for the title cards in post-Wai builds (if i remember correctly Wood Zone just displays Green/Emerald Hill like it does in the final).
Not necessarily. Depending on how things were forked, the object layout and level layouts could have been in a completely different department than the coding. So, the code changes were made after seeing the level layout changes and object placements. However, the level layout/object layout fork weren't worth including so we have what we have. It makes quite a bit of sense actually coming from a development standpoint.
Hidden Palace Zone was also made fully playable from start to end in the Segapede pitch, if that's worth noting.
Yeah, it's entirely possible an internal build had a complete HP that was never merged back into the main codebase for any builds we have. Glad more people are thinking about how development between groups of people work. We've also had Craig mention that he remembers playing HP right through from start to finish. (Anyone ask him if he remembers if there was ever a boss?) It's highly likely 90% of those level tiles were made for Hidden Palace during Sonic 2 development. The tiles were being re-used to save time, for the purpose of just showing how the game was played, it's unlikely a huge amount of time was put into addng more tiles just for an internal demo. Probably just shuffled around and tweaked a bit to suit the faster speed of the astropede. So we're probably seeing more HP right here. (the cave areas similar to ehz with the diamonds in front for example) ps: looks like the flag from kid chameleon was repurposed as the end level in the astropede demo, wonder what other things in that demo are actually from other (released or unreleased) games...
It honestly looks like the background might have been a case similar to Labyrinth zone, where as the original was just simpler and not as interesting. Looking at the video here, it seems like a lot may have been recycled into Toxic Caves.
I did. Most level layouts that included bosses had "boss rooms". A more open room at the end of the layout designed for a boss. Craig was very adamant that HPZ's layout did not have a boss room and when he played it, there was no boss. He does not, however, remember how it ended. Most likely a signpost, like other unfinished zones that didn't have their bosses implemented. Based on this, I think by the time HPZ's layout was completed, it had already been decided that it would be a single-act zone including some kind of cutscene rather than a boss.
Does that mean the cutscene would have taken place at the end where you'd normally find a boss instead?
That's because it was. ICEKnight's interview with him says as much. Something that TCRF points out too, is that the glowing...er....bridge things were reused in Icecap Zone also. When you run over them, the segment you're on lights up.
I should have pointed that out -- that's what I was referencing. I was more meaning that seeing the background art in the video posted, that there was indeed more art drawn for the level (and likely a lot of other levels) that just wasn't used, or didn't make the cut due to limited space. I could totally see the smaller crystals being axed in favor of a more robust background. It's interesting knowing that this additional/alternative art could be the stuff used in Spinball.
Masa's demo mix of the "unused track" people say is Hidden Palace's bores that out too, as unlike all the others it actually has an ending...
Unfortunately, this was all during our 3-hour Skype interview I have yet to find the time to edit down...it'll be on Youtube soon enough. However, he's said this before. https://forums.sonicretro.org/index...-the-mind-behind-sonic-2s-hidden-palac.32947/
I just find that widely hard to believe. The layout in the mobile release just screams sonic cd and really doesn't match the style of the other sonic 2 levels. Granted, Tax was the one behind it so I get why it has cd vibes, it has trademarks of his style of level layouts. I'd be suprised if it was that similiar. Especially how the original layout was layed out. Seeing other levels, they did change drastically BUT all of those times you could still see the old layout clear as day. Edit: I should probably mention that I didn't mean I don't believe you, it's just hard for me to grasp the idea.
If anything, I'd say they remind me more of S3K/Mania-style layouts in terms of branching pathways and the nature of the gimmickry. It's almost as if this was Sonic Mania's version of Hidden Palace Zone.
That might have been what basically happened; they built the maps off of the existing groundwork, but with their own ideas and twists put on it. Since I don't think anyone's done it in a hack, I hope some day that someone makes a mod for the new mobile decomp of Sonic 2 with Hidden Palace as it was intended, being teleported there after the seventh Emerald, with a cutscene instead of the Robotnik boss. Maybe tweak the stage a bit to remove some of the post-Sonic 2 flourishes and we might have something close to the original vision.
