Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Qjimbo, May 8, 2006.
I disagree with your disagreement.
I disagree with your disagreement with his disagreement.
I 406 your disagreements
oh god what have I started...
Back on topic, I think the general outcry here is the same that original fans did to Adventure-- 'cept now it's Adventure fans at Next-gen. Oh, yeah, and the old faithful original fans being further alienated.
However, the major thing I wanted, out of ANYTHING, was Robotnik finally being himself again. In my experience, the gimmicks and the good guys rarely seem to balance out the presence of a strong or memorable foe. If you've ever played Star Fox 64, look at the sort of lines and personalities of the bosses. Most people remember them and even shout them out at silly times!
Now look at Assault. Remember much from there? Heck no. Maybe you didn't even buy the game. Because the villians there were so much less detailed, no amount of highly detailed good guys and/or neutral guys could salvage that from dissappointing me.
Now, here we have another comparison, one easily made. Sonic 1 vs. Sonic CD. Sonic CD, in my mind, is better—but not for the gimickry, although that adds 'fun' value. Robotnik in Sonic CD is a full-on cheap jerk who attacks you in the most deceptive and tricky ways possible; he shows plenty of character in refusing to fight a fair fight. Meanwhile, in Sonic 1, he just mindlessly attacks over and over again, and only at the end does he show his true colors.
This generally coincides with the game. Sonic 2 had an immensely improved Eggman, because he showed even more of himself and you got to find out what sort of things he'd build if he really had control of the world. Sonic 3 and Knuckles got even better, as you saw him tricking people to attack you (!!!) and creating sentient, even rebellious thinking machines (!!!^5) to kill you. Heck, he didn't stop anywhere.
Now, we find out where things peak and die, in my opinion.
In Sonic Adventure 1, Eggman hits his peak—he tricks more people, creates more sentient destroying machines, and employs a force of mass destruction on his side. He even has some decent backup plans. However, the ending ultimately dethrones him, sending him down the path to mere desperation rather than genius.
Having been intoxicated from the results of having a powerful being at your control, he does it again in SA2. However, he is even worse beaten, as he now has to actively help the good guys for once! The end of SA2 paints him as a cornball rather than a villian, as instead of pulling something cheap like before, he lets everyone get away without him having the last laugh.
Heroes is where we hit ROCK BOTTOM. He's a goofy maniac, no matter how much of the game you've looked at, and his machines are no longer menacing. Heck, he's AFRAID of some of his own previous ones. In the end, he, once again, HELPS THE GOOD GUYS. This destroys the last threads of integrity in him, as he seems to now be too dumb to be on any side, but rather gets thrown around.
Shadow the Hedgehog's Eggman is pretty much the pits, though it gets a little better. In this game, Eggman has clearly lost his mind, as he makes intentionally weak and goofy robots. He also helps the good guys throughout the game; and any attempts to aid him wind up in his defeat (Huh? What? That makes no sense!) Thus he becomes a neutral plot object.
LONG LONG LONG story short, the return to a devious Eggman, NO MATTER WHO OR WHAT HE TRICKS OR ATTACKS, brings us full circle. For it is he who can help bring the series out of the mud. And, should he be evil enough, he'd be likely to kill off or maim wimpy or lame characters. Or at least kidnap them for long durations of time. Thus, the screaming at this game is unjustified; even if he looks different, this look is one of realism; his actions will have consequences, and this game will actually mean something if you care about Eggman.
You forgot Sonic Rush. That was the first Sonic (good) game to have Robotnik as the final villain instead of being cast aside by some more powerful threat for a loooooooong time.
Anyway, I have mixed feelings about this, but it's mostly good. I love the new levels we've seen, especially the obviously Venice-inspired Soleanna. In fact, much of this game seems to be giving off a Sonic CD vibe. Robotnik looks far too old. I love that they've aged the characters, but I didn't actually think they'd to it to this degree. Hell, he looks like he should be in a retirement home now! Yet, he looks much more menacing and a tad bit-crazy, instead of just plain retarded like he was in Heroes. I don't really care for the politically correct 'white' hedgehog and Shadow though.
Oh, and for everybody bitching about how crap this game is going to be, NONE OF YOU HAVE PLAYED THIS. YOU CAN NOT FORMULATE A SOPHISTICATED OPINION ABOUT SOMETHING WHICH HASN'T EVEN BEEN FULLY DEVELOPED YET.
Re. Robotnik, hehe, he was definitely in his prime in Sonic 2, I mean that Emerald Hill Zone car was just ... stylish. If Robotnik gets too old, they should do what Archie Comics did: Replace the old geezer Robotnik with a mechanized clone of himself, and a evil mean version at that. Evil robotics scientists CANT die.
On a side note, I hope that Metal Sonic puts in an appearance in this new game. Metal Sonic was always THE ORIGINAL Evil Sonic Clone (tm), after all.
In any event, Robotnik seemed fine in SA2 and Heroes, then in Shadow the Hedgehog started looking pretty darn old and now he does indeed look *old*. But hey, he was probably older than Sonic by a *lot* back in Sonic 1, so what do you expect?
Actually, right now, judging from that screenshot, I dare say that Sonic Team is actually adopting a more Archie Comicsish proportion for Robotnik -- that looks just like a skinnier (Julian Ivo) Robotnik's proportions, just with the Sonic Adventure coat!
I just hope that if Sonic's been adultified a bit more, that Tails might have had a growth spurt; I'm tired of Miles Prower being given a little kid voice and proportions, its time our fox boy KICKED SOME ASS, don't you think?
LMAO at the thought of Tails' voice breaking mid-game, and suddenly dropping to ludicrously low 'Barry White' proportions..
If I remember correctly, weren't YOU one of the people at the DK Vine forums who complained about Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, before THAT was even released? If so, then you're making yourself sound like a hypocrite, right now.
They should have made "Sonic The Hedgehog" and "Shadow and Friends" as two different games. When I want to play a Sonic game I'm not looking for GTA or Half-Life 2 stuff.
...Sumarises this thread, much like every other next-gen Sonic game thread that anticipated a new release. Jesus, of course it's not old Sonic. How could anyone expect it to be? The market's changed. The technology's changed. Sonic has changed. Deal with it, don't whine and sulk on a forum, for the love of God.
EDIT: Grammar / syntax fix.
...Further editing: As for my oppinion, if I get a '360, I might rent the game to try it out before I consider purchasing it. It looks rather good. Of course, I don't really care for video games anymore (least of all Sonic the Hedgehog), and I'd only really get a '360 if someone else got it for me at christmas or if Halo 3 comes out or somethin'. :P
So all the fanboys over at Eggman Empire are jizzing themselves, while most other classic fans are pissed. Yeah. Okay.
I personally like Eggman's new design. He looks more evil this way. Also, Princesses and Humanoid robots? Well, anyone who has ever picked up an Archie Sonic Comic without spitting on it, I don't see how you can complain. :P
I personally don't see why there's so much hatred already. If you hate it going in, no way are you going to be satisfied. Then when you don't like it (or continue not liking it) you can moan for another few years about how you hate Sonic Team and how Sega has abandoned you, and so on and soforth... Then when the next game comes along, rinse and repeat.
Well yeah. What else are people going to talk about when new footage is released of an upcoming game in the series that this message board revolves around? Honestly.
...Have you checked Muffin_man's signature lately? :P
To be honest I hope this game isn't gonna get absolutely slashed by hardcore sonic fans just because naka lied about the game "taking sonic back to his roots".
If you are like this, get over it for fuck's sake.
So he lied. Big Whoop. Sonic Games have moved on From the old days, like technology and many other things. If so fucking bothered about the old days, either move on or go play those games for the rest of your time. This is only my opinion though.
And don't get me started on shadow. Just because The Marmite Hedgehog's appearing in this game, doesn't mean it'll suck. I admit, vehicles again are disappointing, but maybe SONIC TEAM have learnt from their mistakes. Just be thankful Sonic's not using Weapons and Vehicles. And because the White guy resembles shadow slightly doesn't mean he's just gonna be a shadow clone. For Christ's sake, at least he is slightly original looking (quills).
Sure the new games probably won't be as good as the old days but I seriously doubt Sonic Team are gonna be making 2D sonic games for Home Consoles anytime soon. Move On, I have.
This is all my opinion though. You have your own.
Have a go at me all you want. You won't be changing my opinion.
I'm getting an XBox 360 at the summer vacation just for this =P
Anyone get the impression that Naka probably left for a reason?
You know, like this game isn't going the way he planned?
Does anyone know Naka personally? Or are you all feeling betrayed for no reason other than you're miserable and wistfully hoping that you'll get another shitty 2D Sonic game, putting your faith into a man you don't know?
EDIT: I have a sneaky susspicion that I've worded this in a way that'll be misinterperated. I hope it won't be.
Naka was the one who made Robotnik so weak; wasn't it him who said that he no longer truly hated Sonic?
The sort of stuff going on here contradicts that, and thus he probably became upset, because this here doesn't seem to represent recent 'Naka' type Sonic games. It's progress to me, but it can be seen as demonic to others. However, his ideas, at least, if he has much to do with how the recent games were, appeared to be harming the commercial viability of the series, and it could be some massive heart vs. commerciality thing where, as usual, dollars won.
But I'm just making a lot of assumptions. Now, if you want a tragedy, see Nobuo Uematsu leaving the Final Fantasy series.
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