Music

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Canned Karma, Mar 22, 2010.

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  1. Guess Who

    Guess Who

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    I feel like the drums are what make my take unique, though. The original song and most of the remasters here have minimal percussion, while others went for a more electronic approach (I'm thinking Blaze's remix in particular here). As for myself, the first thing that sticks out to me when I hear HPZ is the drum intro, and, coming from a rock background, my instinct is to make it more powerful and add some delicious cymbal work. I do try and build up to a climax (the cymbal rush during the harp sweep just before the song loops), and I'm working on ways to add a bit more variation, but I think toning the drums down in any way would ultimately be detrimental to what I'm trying to achieve here.

    As for the lead, the instrument switching idea seems like a bit unnecessary, but I do think I could do a bit more to make the flute sound natural. To that end, I've <a href="http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/6/6/53874/sonicretro/Hidden%20Palace%20Zone%20-%20V4-3%20-%20Guess%20Who.ogg" target="_blank">toned down the volume, added some breathing room where I think it sounds natural, and a few other small things</a>. Ignore the hi-hat flairs, they're just an experiment. (Unless you like them, but I doubt it.)
     
  2. Tweaker

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    Hey, uh. This is totally unrelated, but I did a little ditty for Chemical Plant. I know we don't actually need Chemical Plant and I'm more than happy with Steve's version, but hey why not. Woo!

    <a href="http://tweaker.sonicretro.org/music/Chemical%20Plant%20Zone.mp3" target="_blank">Here.</a>

    Just because I always thought the song did best with synthy shit. :3
     
  3. Endgame

    Endgame

    Formerly The Growler Member
    <!--quoteo(post=461546:date=May 31 2010, 02:18 PM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ May 31 2010, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=461546">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey, uh. This is totally unrelated, but I did a little ditty for Chemical Plant. I know we don't actually need Chemical Plant and I'm more than happy with Steve's version, but hey why not. Woo!

    <a href="http://tweaker.sonicretro.org/music/Chemical%20Plant%20Zone.mp3" target="_blank">Here.</a>

    Just because I always thought the song did best with synthy shit. :3<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Usually I love your music work Tweaker, but I'm not really too keen on the sound of the 'chords'[?] to that; it sounds a like it was played on one of those cheap-ish music keyboards. I can't explain what, but it feels like there's something... slightly missing to it, I'm not sure.

    I'm not really very good with music terminology, so please forgive me for that. ^^;
     
  4. Tweaker

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    You're right that it's a very cheesy synth brass, but that was kind of the point. When you remaster a tune composed in the early 90s, sometimes it's good to consider the era it was made in and pick the instrumentation to suit that. By all means the original FM instruments were in a similar vein of cheesy; you just didn't mind because that was sort of the norm for music made on the YM2612. Plus it didn't have reverb.
     
  5. Endgame

    Endgame

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    <!--quoteo(post=461833:date=Jun 1 2010, 01:08 AM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Jun 1 2010, 01:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=461833">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're right that it's a very cheesy synth brass, but that was kind of the point. When you remaster a tune composed in the early 90s, sometimes it's good to consider the era it was made in and pick the instrumentation to suit that. By all means the original FM instruments were in a similar vein of cheesy; you just didn't mind because that was sort of the norm for music made on the YM2612. Plus it didn't have reverb.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    While I can see what you're getting at, isn't the idea of this all project about 're-creating' Sonic 2 for the 21st Century? I'm not suggesting that we create a totally different-sounding Zone tunes, but more along the lines of 'updating' a 90s tune with 21st Century music technology.

    The whole reason why we're redoing it in HD is because they were limited to 90s technology - as like you said, they didn't have reverb back then.

    So why limit ourselves to their limitations while we're trying to make this a HD rendition of a classic 90s tune? It doesn't sound very logical to me (if... you get my drift?).
     
  6. Guess Who

    Guess Who

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    <a href="http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/6/6/53874/sonicretro/Mystic%20Cave%20Zone%20-%20V2%20-%20Guess%20Who.ogg" target="_blank">Mystic Cave v2</a>, a bit faster, redone drum track, and a few slight tweaks.
     
  7. Willie

    Willie

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  8. HeartAttack

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    <!--quoteo(post=462212:date=Jun 1 2010, 04:22 PM:name=Guess Who)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guess Who @ Jun 1 2010, 04:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462212">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/6/6/53874/sonicretro/Mystic%20Cave%20Zone%20-%20V2%20-%20Guess%20Who.ogg" target="_blank">Mystic Cave v2</a>, a bit faster, redone drum track, and a few slight tweaks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This sounds awesome.

    The only critique I have is that I think the snare may be a bit too bright. Still - I absolutely love it. It sounds great.
     
  9. Tweaker

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    <!--quoteo(post=462016:date=Jun 1 2010, 12:05 PM:name=The Growler)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Growler @ Jun 1 2010, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462016">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While I can see what you're getting at, isn't the idea of this all project about 're-creating' Sonic 2 for the 21st Century? I'm not suggesting that we create a totally different-sounding Zone tunes, but more along the lines of 'updating' a 90s tune with 21st Century music technology.

    The whole reason why we're redoing it in HD is because they were limited to 90s technology - as like you said, they didn't have reverb back then.

    So why limit ourselves to their limitations while we're trying to make this a HD rendition of a classic 90s tune? It doesn't sound very logical to me (if... you get my drift?).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's not a limit—it's an aesthetic choice. Every single synthesizer and sample set I used in that track is absolutely modern. The whole buzzword of "HD" that people keep throwing around for music is, frankly, ridiculous. The music should be judged not through what era the general sound was popular in, but by now appropriately they fit the song. I can insert grungy as fuck buzzy saw synths all over the goddamned place if that's what gets your rocks off, but that won't make it sound any better at all. This artificial notion of adherence to an arbitrary "HD" standard of music quality is, frankly, ridiculous.

    scubaSteve's Emerald Hill has patches that sound like they came out of the 80s, but you didn't hear anyone bitching about that. Why? Because the choice in sound was completely appropriate. I don't see how mine is any less credible.

    In other news, I did <a href="http://tweaker.sonicretro.org/music/Wing%20Fortress%20Zone.mp3" target="_blank">Wing Fortress</a> too. Love it or leave it, I guess. And yes, I'm aware the brass is a little too high; unfortunately, I couldn't get Kontakt to dip into the lower octaves without taking a shit all over my face and refusing to play the notes. I'm also not totally happy with the percussion. Maybe you'll like it, though!

    <!--quoteo(post=462212:date=Jun 1 2010, 07:22 PM:name=Guess Who)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guess Who @ Jun 1 2010, 07:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462212">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/6/6/53874/sonicretro/Mystic%20Cave%20Zone%20-%20V2%20-%20Guess%20Who.ogg" target="_blank">Mystic Cave v2</a>, a bit faster, redone drum track, and a few slight tweaks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Wow, dude. You seriously need to either get a better reverb plugin or use a lot less of it. I can't take this seriously when it's absolutely drowning in it.

    The instrumentation and arrangement sound like they might have potential, but not like this. Please do something about that. I'd also suggest percussion that doesn't consist of nothing but drumsticks frotting. Respectfully, of course. Needs a lot more punch to it. I might give something a shot later if I can be bothered; if you want, I can also try improving the mastering on your arrangement. Either works for me at this point.
     
  10. <!--quoteo(post=462212:date=Jun 2 2010, 12:22 AM:name=Guess Who)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guess Who @ Jun 2 2010, 12:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462212">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/6/6/53874/sonicretro/Mystic%20Cave%20Zone%20-%20V2%20-%20Guess%20Who.ogg" target="_blank">Mystic Cave v2</a>, a bit faster, redone drum track, and a few slight tweaks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Could do with some stronger bass. Maybe through use of a Double Bass or even a loud Bass Guitar.
    There is a bit too much reverb as a stated by Tweaker, but I like the effect it gives in the bridge section with the piano [the part before it loops].

    The main meldoy should also be stronger.

    Otherwise the type of instruments and instrumentation is fine.
     
  11. Hamneggs

    Hamneggs

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    <!--quoteo(post=461546:date=May 31 2010, 07:18 AM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ May 31 2010, 07:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=461546">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey, uh. This is totally unrelated, but I did a little ditty for Chemical Plant. I know we don't actually need Chemical Plant and I'm more than happy with Steve's version, but hey why not. Woo!

    <a href="http://tweaker.sonicretro.org/music/Chemical%20Plant%20Zone.mp3" target="_blank">Here.</a>

    Just because I always thought the song did best with synthy shit. :3<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It's probably because I've been listening to the OC version of CPZ, but this just doesn't have that thump to get the pace of the level and Sonic in general across fully.
     
  12. Guess Who

    Guess Who

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    The idea behind the heavy reverb is that the level's setting is in a big, echoing cave. But if it's too much for you, <a href="http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/6/6/53874/sonicretro/Mystic%20Cave%20Zone%20-%20V2-1%20-%20Guess%20Who.ogg" target="_blank">this</a> should be more tolerable.

    The other two problems I'm having are the bass (sounds fine on my headphones, but it's practically inaudible on my treble-y laptop speakers... need to strike more of a balance, because it needs to be prominent in any scenario, some EQing could probably sort that out) and the weak snare (too bright, but I don't want it to be too powerful, either).
     
  13. When I download your files, they always have the OGV extension. Since Firefox won't play it (because it thinks it's a video), I can't listen to it without changing the file extension. Could you save it as OGG next time? :)
     
  14. Tweaker

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    <!--quoteo(post=462491:date=Jun 2 2010, 02:00 PM:name=Guess Who)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guess Who @ Jun 2 2010, 02:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462491">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The idea behind the heavy reverb is that the level's setting is in a big, echoing cave. But if it's too much for you, <a href="http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/6/6/53874/sonicretro/Mystic%20Cave%20Zone%20-%20V2-1%20-%20Guess%20Who.ogg" target="_blank">this</a> should be more tolerable.

    The other two problems I'm having are the bass (sounds fine on my headphones, but it's practically inaudible on my treble-y laptop speakers... need to strike more of a balance, because it needs to be prominent in any scenario, some EQing could probably sort that out) and the weak snare (too bright, but I don't want it to be too powerful, either).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is much better. As for that wider "cave" sort of feel you're going for, I'd suggest either a drier reverb (I know, I know... wet cave, dry reverb, laughing_elf_man.jpg) or some sort of ambient sound effects in the background—drips, maybe some panned delay on more of the tracks or something... you know, whatever can capture the attention of the ears as often as possible.

    I wouldn't be too afraid of a powerful snare; this is one of the cases where one would be entirely appropriate. Give it a shot and then decided whether you want it or not. You might be surprised.
     
  15. HeartAttack

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    I got a feeling (while listening to it) of exactly what Guess Who described - being in a big ol', reverb-filled cave. I thought it was great and matched the level perfectly. I'll take a listen to the 2nd version now.
     
  16. Endgame

    Endgame

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    <!--quoteo(post=462212:date=Jun 2 2010, 12:22 AM:name=Guess Who)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guess Who @ Jun 2 2010, 12:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462212">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/6/6/53874/sonicretro/Mystic%20Cave%20Zone%20-%20V2%20-%20Guess%20Who.ogg" target="_blank">Mystic Cave v2</a>, a bit faster, redone drum track, and a few slight tweaks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Lol, as I was listening through this, it kinda reminds me of a 'haunted house'- style music :v:

    <!--quoteo(post=462412:date=Jun 2 2010, 11:47 AM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Jun 2 2010, 11:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462412">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In other news, I did <a href="http://tweaker.sonicretro.org/music/Wing%20Fortress%20Zone.mp3" target="_blank">Wing Fortress</a> too. Love it or leave it, I guess. And yes, I'm aware the brass is a little too high; unfortunately, I couldn't get Kontakt to dip into the lower octaves without taking a shit all over my face and refusing to play the notes. I'm also not totally happy with the percussion. Maybe you'll like it, though!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Tweaker, as I said before, I absolutely *love* all your work before (and you have nailed WFZ spot on - it truly sounds epic!); it was just that one particular instrument which sounded a little flimsy, that's all.
     
  17. MaximusDM

    MaximusDM

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    This is a loop I created for Wing Fortress Zone. I don't think I ever posted it. Obviously I didn't make the music.
    <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?tmbjmhuymqz" target="_blank">Video Game Orchestra - Wing Fortress Zone</a>
     
  18. zemulii

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    <!--quoteo(post=462624:date=Jun 3 2010, 10:49 AM:name=The Growler)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Growler @ Jun 3 2010, 10:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462624">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tweaker, as I said before, I absolutely *love* all your work before (and you have nailed WFZ spot on - it truly sounds epic!); it was just that one particular instrument which sounded a little flimsy, that's all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Definitely agree with this ;). Just listening to it makes me feel like I'm playing through the level. It feels so "Sonic 2"!
     
  19. Overlord

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    <!--quoteo(post=462522:date=Jun 2 2010, 08:16 PM:name=Meph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Meph @ Jun 2 2010, 08:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462522">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When I download your files, they always have the OGV extension. Since Firefox won't play it (because it thinks it's a video), I can't listen to it without changing the file extension. Could you save it as OGG next time? :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually if it's an audio file, it should be saved as .oga now - ogg is a legacy extension (as both Theora and Vorbis used it, there was some confusion, and they decided to split them up). .oga for audio, .ogv for video.
     
  20. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    Guess Who:

    ...Okay. I'm guessing that instrument making the slapping sound is a snare. And to my ears it sounds terribly out of place in this. If I had to listen to this as I was playing the level, I'd be scrambling for my mute button. It just really doesn't do it for me, especially in comparison with the submissions we've already received. I'd go into more detail on the why, but Tweaker already nailed it all in far more accurate terms than I know of.

    Try a different track?
     
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