Music Remastered

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Athelstone, Apr 24, 2008.

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  1. mario

    mario

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  2. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

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    Trust me, the harmony line is doing the complete opposite.

    The only thing I don't like so far is the amount of drum beat fillers. Maybe just have them every other verse. Also, try and lead up to the guitar riff at the end of each verse. As it is right now, especially in the first two verses, that riff just seems to come out of nowhere.
     
  3. ransomrath

    ransomrath

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    I'm dropping the volume of the harmony line. The drum fills are where they are because it makes the song more progressive and less repetitive.
     
  4. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    Not the entire harmony line, just for the very end. Alternatively, make the silent at the beginning of each verse, have it gradually build in volume until the riff which ends each verse, where it "releases all its energy" if you know what I mean.

    And I actually think the drum fills sound very repetitive and potentially distracting to players as they currently are. At least halve the length of half of the fills. If the artist in you is resisting this advice, then consider this: varying the length of the fills will add even more variety to the overall tune.
     
  5. mario

    mario

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  6. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    Are you sure that the horns are on the correct pitch for the 1-up? They sound lower than they should be. Also, see if you can make it stand out more by making it punchier. The bells in the background are interesting. I'm not sure if I like or dislike them right now. Do you have any other ideas for it?
     
  7. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    The Metropolis song still sounds awesome (except perhaps for seconds 17 to 20, which I personally don't like at all). It's a real shame that it now has even more different stuff to the original.

    It could be near-perfect if it wasn't for those differences (at seconds 6, 13 and 17 to 20, 39 to 41, 45 to 47).
     
  8. mario

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    The lower octave was too loud indeed. Fixed.
    Got better strings and compressed the brass section a bit to help the punch.
    The glockenspiel is more subtle, although this is not the only addition. The french horns and the wind section play an harmonic role.
    I'm wondering wheter or not I should add crash cymbals, one in the very first hit and then a reverse cymbal from the 1st beat of the 2nd measure onwards.

    1-Up is updated; Drowning theme is added to my list:

    Chemical Plant Zone
    1-Up Theme
    Drowning Theme

    Moving on to some other unfinished stuff I have, unless I get some more effective feedback :v:
     
  9. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    The drowning theme screams house techno music to me. I know that you've most likely been doing this to create the piece, but listen to the original again and compare it to yours. You've got a distinctly remixed version going on here. We need good remasters first, and quality remixes as options after that. Replace your synths with horns and tone the bass way, way back. I would reconsider the synth you have as harmonic backup to the main notes as well, as that only serves to increase the techno vibe. Nice crescendo at the end though.

    For the 1-up theme I'm having a really hard time telling the differences between your first submission and the most recent. If anything, I'd say the horns feel like they've been pulled back a bit. Did you run those through a compressor without auto-gain compensation? I can't tell any key differences in their attack or release from the first version either.
     
  10. mario

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    lol no, I'm not into techno music. In fact I mostly listen to metal and classical music.

    Yes, I went less conservative on purpose... actually I had a hard time trying to get what the intended instruments were for this piece, thus I went techno. On the other hand, in CPZ I always "felt" the funky overall style and the brass trio playing the fill-ins.

    Given the fact I can't figure out the "right" instruments for the drowning, I have the option to exhume an orchestral version I made ages ago. It would be a lot different from the original anyway. Is it worth the work?

    Well, the compressor didn't really make a difference and also I'm not that good at mixing/mastering. Maybe I need a different brass section soundfont, I don't know. I'll try something.
     
  11. ransomrath

    ransomrath

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    I think I need to be more clear. I think people were expecting a redo or refreshing of the original metropolis zone too much, and that's CERTAINLY not what this is. It's a modern Electrock (cross pollinated breaks/IDM/grunge rock) version of this song that I believe it needed to have.

    all of the 'second markers you mentioned very INCREDIBLY slightly different from the original, which was done with a computer and a synthesizer, where this was done with my fingertips, almost every single element of it. Some people don't like the drum fills, some people don't like the bends, some people don't like breakbeats. If you're ok with listening to a 10 second loop over and over, then my version is a version for fans of more progressive rock/IDM breaks. That's pretttty much it.

    Yes there are differences. Yes it's still the same EXACT melody in 98 percent of the song. That makes it the exact same song, except completely redone. NOT an enhanced version of the original, which is most of the submissions I've listened to on this board. Not that they're bad at ALL... but that's just what I think people are looking for.

    If you go into that ransomrath.com/planetskill/

    there's a version of oil ocean zone I did with AE in there that might make you cry and wimper because it's so different from the original. if you're one of those people, then I'm truly truly sorry. You say distractingly different, I say cutting edge!

    Rath
     
  12. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    Wow. I can't believe I didn't make that connection before. I got the WT-40 mix off OCR ages ago and love the hell out of it to this day. Small wonder I've been consistently impressed with your submissions, you've got an excellent background to say the least.

    As I've said many times in the past, I've always been slightly more biased toward a remix remaster instead of a straight remaster without interpretation. This applies to the main themes in particular. Tunes like the drowning music and the 1-up clip I feel should be far more faithful due to their brevity.

    If you've got other stuff along a similar vein for Sonic 2 Rath, by all means post them up here. A 'worst case scenario' would have people express more of what they already have - compliments on great music, if not the feel they believe necessary for S2HD.
     
  13. ransomrath

    ransomrath

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    I knew my version wasn't synthy or classic. Which is why I never expected inclusion. I wanted to do an Electrock version of Metropolis before I really knew about this project. So I figured since there's just a cutting edge project going on, maybe they'd want something really modern for it.

    It's ALL good. :colbert:
     
  14. Tweaker

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    I think there's a pretty striking misconception about why we prefer conservative music for this project.

    Simply put, our goal is to try and alleviate the mixed reactions that are received when people comb through the material that this project produces. If you loved Metropolis Zone's music, then a proper remastering of the song would stick to the original tune as close as possible while making changes—nothing short of improvements—that build upon the original music, instead of changing it around in ways that will ultimately be subjectively judged differently.

    It's possible to enjoy, say, Green Hill Zone's music, but severely dislike a remix that changes the arrangement in a way that doesn't hit home for you. By sticking to the original arrangement without changing it drastically, we can avoid the setback of people viewing in lower regard than the original material. That's the whole point behind that mentality.

    That said, in no way are your changes inherently bad as much as they simply leave more room than we'd like to cause indifference among our target audience as a whole. There are nearly an infinite number of ways any given tune can be interpreted; the only way that we can be sure will appeal to fans of the original song is to stick to that style.

    I hope you haven't taken any of our criticism personally, though! Your work is absolutely brilliant, and you're an invaluable asset to this project. We just hope you see our reasoning here. :colbert:
     
  15. ransomrath

    ransomrath

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    gotcha! well, I'm glad people liked it anyways. :colbert:
     
  16. Fuck. This has to be said:

    Everyone, CHECK YOUR LEVELS. Clipping causes distortion to the song and also makes it *very* loud. If you use FL Studio, don't let the line meters turn orange or red. If they do, you're clipping or close to it. If you use something else, try to make sure the level stays below -6db. If you want to make the song seem louder and more balanced between quiet and loud parts, use a compressor plugin.

    Otherwise, that's a cool tune Mario. I recommend somewhat beefier drums though. =P

    As for my mix, it's as if I'm playing to an empty auditorium. I need feedback to continue work. Since working with hardware is harder than software, I can't just change patches and upload a bunch. I'll probably just drop out for now.
     
  17. mario

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    You're right.

    I went through all the mixing process again. It's so much better now.

    Chemical Plant Zone: totally remixed, much more clear sounding; new set of snare/kick drums.

    1-Up Theme: new brass section, totally remixed.

    Drowning Theme: Strings, celesta, timpani, bass drum and crash cymbals. I can't see any wind/brass instrument doing the lead... Well, that's my last attempt at this one (I pretty much don't know what to do), I'm sure you guys will come with something more balanced or whatever :specialed:
     
  18. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

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    Really good so far. It's still has one crucial flaw, however: the lack of a prominent saxophone lead. I also feel that an organ doesn't fit into the piece anywhere.

    Now the brass is too staccato. Perhaps make the gaps between notes smaller, and while you're at it, soften the bells in the background just a bit.

    The drowning theme has to feature staccato notes and otherwise be as jarring as possible. This rendition is far too soft to convey that original feeling of urgency.
     
  19. mario

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    Chemical Plant Zone
    Indeed the tenor sax fits perfectly! Thanks for the input. There are some minor mixing enhancements.

    1-Up Theme
    Fixed as recommended. Added a crash cymbal to add to the "hit" effect.

    Drowning Theme
    Abandoned for now.
     
  20. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

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    Hell yes. I believe we've found our Chemical Plant music.
    Well... almost. Just add some small gaps between the notes of the tenor sax at sections 0:28-0:41 and 0:58:00-0:58:99, and I think it will be perfect.

    Also much better than before.
     
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