Music Remastered

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Athelstone, Apr 24, 2008.

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  1. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    While that is indeed faithful to the original, the samples of it feel very, very MIDI. Maybe replace some of the current ones used with instrumental samples? So far the remasters we've seen of CPZ have been some of the better ones submitted; you may want to listen to a couple by scubaSteve as Tweaker has already suggested. Scuba is the project's music coordinator for a reason!

    The project goal is to get quality remasters, yes, but the ones that have taken creative license to redefine the original tracks in a new light have thus far held the most promise in my eyes.

    I'll look forward to hearing your next contribution :psyduck:
     
  2. scubaSteve

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    I really like where you're going with your track, legareal. The overall energy is great and it feels very close to the original (something that I can't seem to get right so far), so excellent work on that. I'd agree with CK though that it feels a bit too MIDI, at least in some spots. It sounds like you're using all synths, so I would actually suggest to stick with that but try to get some more varied sounds and more presence out of them.

    The only thing in particular that I think doesn't fit is the bass instrument -- the multi-saw sound gives it a nasty rave-like quality that clashes pretty badly with the electro-industrial feel of the rest of the song.

    Finally, regarding the arrangement after the first loop -- Since I'm personally pretty lax when it comes to the artistic license debate, I really don't care if you do some minor new arrangements, especially if they're good (which yours is). However, because there seems to be a decent chance that there will be separate art/music packs released later, I will merely caution against using those new arrangements in your primary mix, as the project's main focus is on remastering at the moment.

    OK, so for anyone who noticed how long I disappeared, I apologize, as I planned to come back after break but got bombarded with lots of little projects. Thankfully I do have something to show, and if all goes well, I'll soon have something to show for another part of the project as well :)

    Mystic Cave 2P

    I know I'm kind of getting (way) ahead of the current goals but CPZ and ARZ both have me creatively stuck at the moment, so I'm trying to re-inspire myself here :psyduck:
     
  3. McGuirk

    McGuirk

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    This one is win. I don't think it could be any better.


    Good track in the making. I have one thing I'd like to point out, though. This is a personal opinion too, so beware;P

    To me, one of the defining characteristics of CPZ's music is its bassline. That instrument's horrible, filthy, slightly distorted self really contributes to the levels industrial/factory feel. I'd like to see more CPZ remix/remasters that better capture this bassline.
     
  4. Vincent

    Vincent

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    Very nice one legareal!

    Just as CK said, while keeping the original medley, every new energy and creative liberties on it are not meant to be automatically unneeded. To the contrary they can be valued to be main tracks of S2HD.


    And Scuba, you know we love you.
    This MCZ2P remaster is freaking past amazing! ^^
     
  5. legareal

    legareal

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    Hi again guys,

    Thanks for some good, honest feedback.

    I've been thinking about McGuirk's comments towards the original CPZ's bassline.. To him the bassline was the key ingredient of the track. Personally I feel slightly differently but that's what made me realize, interpretation of music is such a personal thing and as such, developing music that pleases the whole community (which is the idea after all) might take a long while as things stand.

    Therefore I have an idea, I know I'm going out on a limb here a little... But would it be ok if I created a new music thread? Not to contend with this one but to instead ask the community (not just the musicians etc) what they felt the original music meant to them, which were the key parts, what they would like to hear. All on a track by track basis, the thread's theme could be rotated (beginning with CPZ I think).

    So it would call on everyones opinion and would benefit all of us writing and remixing, a specific place to go for inspiration, ideas and more importantly guidance!

    Let me know what you think...


    ps. As for my track it seems unanimous that the bass sound must go! So I will change that immediately and continue to work on the other ideas put forth. Hopefully we can get going with this new thread! :psyduck:
     
  6. Vincent

    Vincent

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    If you suggest a Workspace as a "WIP Music" , (just as we have for "WIP Art") to manage and focus the development of music, I'd like to see a more detailed example of how this would work, given a specific remix. ^^

    And of course, Scuba's thought on the subject.
     
  7. legareal

    legareal

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    That's just about right.

    I am thinking more of a place to get people's thoughts on the original music and what they would like to hear in an updated version. So it would be less of a WIP showcase and more of a meaty discussion on the original score for us musical people to go away and work with.

    For example when asked about CPZ, people could come and make comments like:

    "To me, one of the defining characteristics of CPZ's music is its bassline. That instrument's horrible, filthy, slightly distorted self really contributes to the levels industrial/factory feel. I'd like to see more CPZ remix/remasters that better capture this bassline" -McGuirk

    "The lead instrument feels like it should be a lot more organic and less synthy than the original"

    "I like CPZ just as it is, just widen the stereo image and mix some depth into it"

    "The drums should have a very techno, pumping feel"

    "To me the energy is more important than the overall musical content so..."

    Sorry about the excessive amount of examples! (the opinions shared above aren't necessarily those of my own!)
     
  8. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    I hear what you're saying legareal, but I don't see anything that keeps that sort of discussion out of this thread. Nothing has been said about keeping this one closed off to everything but musical contributions. Having the opinions on the theory behind creating them is a great idea, but I don't see a specific need for another thread addressing it.
     
  9. Tweaker

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    Aww, I thought mine was getting used. :v:

    That said, I'm not really sure what to think about this. The original song thrived on a very hollow, synthy, open, and cave-esque feel. What you have is nice—especially the bass and the strings—but the rest seems too... generic, I guess is the word? Basically, it doesn't feel like a cave as much as another stock zone. I also feel like there aren't enough percussion-based instruments used, and that the brass is a bit too strong; the original bass was pretty quick and upbeat, as it was.

    For anyone who wants a good basis of comparison, you can hear the original tune on the wiki's Mystic Cave Zone page. Note that it seems to strive for an incredibly unrealistic feel, unlike most of the tracks in the game which try to strive for at least some degree of realism. I think this direction should be emulated if at all possible.

    Mind you, I'm not saying I hate this version at all—I quite like it, in fact! But I think the whole realistic take isn't doing it as much justice as it could be giving it.

    Hope this helps. :psyduck:
     
  10. scubaSteve

    scubaSteve

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    Thanks for the feedback, Tweaker... I never really thought of the original that way before. I think I might try an entirely new mix to fit that point of view.

    A WIP Music thread as Vincent described might work... but the way you're describing it, legareal (as merely a discussion thread), I'd have to agree with CK. If you look further back through this thread there have been plenty of discussions like those you gave examples of, and there's nothing to stop us from having those types of discussions now.
     
  11. muteKi

    muteKi

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    I'd highly recommend giving the support instruments a heavy echo such that it sounds ghostlike (don't make it louder though, mind). This was one of the things I loved about the french horn sample that I used in my rendition.
     
  12. Tora

    Tora

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    I normally wouldn't do this, but I noticed that both of us had asked for critique on these almost a month ago with no replies. :argh: Then I saw that the thread got active and was hoping to see that we got feedback but alas.
     
  13. I thought I was dreaming. If anyone has any suggestions I can improve a few things, as I still have the project file (somewhere)
     
  14. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    Tora, here's my far from official breakdown of what I heard:

    The melody is accurate, but whatever flange or wah-wah effect you used on it was distracting for me. I hate to beat on the sampling drum again, but that's a nagging issue with a lot of the original submissions we've had lately. I'd want to have backup from scubaSteve or Tweaker on that with additional suggestions to correct it, since they have more expertise in that area.

    Your baseline came off as, well, boring. It's either a step up from one note to the next, or a step down. Maybe not to the exact next note on the scale, but you see what I mean.

    The piano in the background was well done. Very subtle. I liked the cymbals a fair bit as well. Not sure what to comment on with the snare. The placement of it is fine, and it's workable enough.

    The opening is good musically, but lacks energy. The cymbal crash even felt muted when taken into context with it. Could be something so simple as a volume issue.
     
  15. legareal

    legareal

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    Right then everyone, seeing as starting a new thread has (understandably) been deemed a bad idea....

    Could I please have everyone's input on how they think the CPZ music should sound? What absolutely must be maintained? What should be accentuated? Do you want to hear more realistic instruments? Or a track sticking to the industrial techno sound?

    Should the drums be distorted and crunchy? Clean and punchy? Or something else?

    Stick to the original completely? Or add remixed elements?

    I understand I am asking a lot considering you need to imagine all of this, but any information is good information. I would love to hear how you think CPZ's music should evolve from the original.

    Thanks guys!

    I really believe with the right input I can create something very nice for you all.
     
  16. Vincent

    Vincent

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    Fine! Let's see what you can come up with Legareal! ^^

    Since we already have Scuba's original medley, what about trying a different attempt with more remixing "liberty"? (not TOO MUCH tough! We should be still able to recall the main tune! :colbert: )

    Instruments? Well anything that indicates a COLD hearted - Metal - Chemical Plant! :D
     
  17. Tweaker

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    Chemical Plant is a very rough industrial sort of track. Next to electric guitar, the kind of feel it should have should involve gated synths, a strong bass (slap or otherwise—as long as it has punch), high frequency wave output, some fair distortion all about, and a heavy drum kit. Everything needs to feel powerful and intimidating, but upbeat at the same time—that's the kind of feel the level always portrayed to me.

    As I said before, your render has a lot of potential, legareal. Try to get some saws in there and follow the other suggestions I've given; that should make everything sound much more appropriate. :colbert:
     
  18. There are a few ways it could be better (not to say that it isn't good now). The original sounded like its main instrument was some sort of flute or recorder, but with a somewhat metallic hollow sound. This track doesn't have that. And there seems to be too much cymbal in this version that I don't hear as distinctly in the original. But I would definately try this tune wit a flute or recorder; that's always what I imagined would be used of this song was played with real instruments.
     
  19. muteKi

    muteKi

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    I think the main instrument should be a [VERY ROUGH AND GROWLY?] alto or tenor sax myself, though.
     
  20. Tweaker

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    I've heard the various experiments with real instruments in this song, and, well... no. None of them worked out. There is a much better chance of an awesome soundscape if it stays synthesized—I'm confident of that.
     
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