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Music placement in Sonic 2

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Hez, Mar 20, 2015.

  1. Clownacy

    Clownacy

    Tech Member
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    As far as Final's concerned...

    • Emerald Hill's theme is in Green Hill's level slot
    • Metropolis' theme is in Wood's level slot
    • Oil Ocean's theme is in Dust Hill's level slot
    • Hidden Palace's theme is in Hidden Palace's level slot
    • Sky Chase's theme is in Cyber City's level slot - (Note that each level was at some point meant to immediately follow MTZ...)

    I imagine the tempos were changed from Wai to Final because, since the sound driver's tempo algorithm was changed, maybe they used an inaccurate calculation, or guess-work, to convert the tempos, and left the inaccurate tempos as they were. I wouldn't settle on 'they were sped up to feel more Sonic-y' because some were actually slowed down.
     
  2. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Speculation alert.

    Change the Aquatic Ruin background to a more tropical one (the final mountains were almost copy-pasted from the prototype Green Hill) and that music could start making a bit of sense.

    And then, Aquatic Ruin's final music has that small but recognizable piece from "The good, the bad and the ugly"... I don't even need to say where it would have made sense to be played.


    Not exactly. Ciber City was supposed to be Metropolis 3, so the level slot wouldn't have been Sky Chase's but Metropolis' second slot (as it uses a separate one for Act 3).
     
  3. Clownacy

    Clownacy

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    Genocide City begs to differ. Back in the Wai beta, the level select references three Metropolis acts, and Genocide City. MTZ act 1-2/3/GCZ used different slots.
     
  4. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Then again, Dust Hill points to Mystic Cave.
     
  5. XCubed

    XCubed

    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    THIS. I've said it time and again and have provided examples of The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly soundtrack to boot! Aquatic Ruins music was meant for Dust Hill which was to be based off of an AMERICAN desert. The composition is made of Tex-Mexican-Latin undertones which is in line with western movies. Star Wars wasn't the only movie with a cameo in the series. I also thought we already knew that Oil Ocean's beta music was just a place holder (As the actual beta version in the soubd test sounded like crap and was redone).

    Also, Mystic Cave's music was wildly inappropriate as it was contorted Circus Music. Being a somewhat creepy cave helped things along. Nakamura was given level ideas, yes, but not all levels were used and they didn't want him to redo music as I'm sure it was expensive.

    The funny thing is that Hill Top was the most thrown together filler level (before Splash Hill), but the music fits the hillbilly on the mountain top vibe perfectly.

    Death Egg Zone got the shaft as there was no zone to really go with it.

    I forgot about Winter Zone. It obviously went to Sky Chase...and somehow works.

    I love how music controversy is still alive and well....even without Sonic 3.
     
  6. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    Mystic Cave....as a circus theme?! That's interesting. I can sort of see it. Anyone whip up a concept? That'd be cool.
     
  7. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Not just kinda. It has a piece from here:


    Just like Aquatic Ruin has a piece from here:




    Mystic Cave's poppy colors on a dark background also evoke what you'd see in a black-light show, so I wouldn't be surprised if the original idea was more circus-related even with the cave in mind already. The level just made sense to me when Sonic 2 was released, because I was used to this "Mystic Show" that was done once per week, at a hotel where I used to stay on Summer holidays...
     
  8. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    Well, when you bring that up, the rails in Mystic Cave could also have belonged to a roller coaster type ordeal. I could see why they would say "Screw it lets turn it into a cave" and it would work so easily.
     
  9. XCubed

    XCubed

    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    That's an interesting point with the "rails" but it's also relatable to a mine shaft. As botched of a game Sonic 2 ended up being, you KNOW it's still good when we are still talking about it 23 years later...damn. I'm still standing by my "guns" that Aquatic Ruin used Dust Hill's original music....however it does have a "Mayan" feel to it....with the exception of those columns.
     
  10. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    Fuck....actually, if you throw Oil Oceans into Aquatic Ruins....it doesn't sound too off.
     
  11. Billy

    Billy

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    I think it's important to consider the demo versions of these songs.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYFUR350JDE
    I agree that this could definitely sound like a (creepy) carnival. It almost sounds like horror movie music at points.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOuMEv5RJok
    However, this sounds distinctly "caribbean", what with the use of what sounds like steel drums.

    Just my thoughts.
     
  12. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Do we know if Nakamura just make one revision of these? There may be different versions of each, depending on the levels he was told were being added/removed.
     
  13. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    I may be wrong, but if I recall wasn't he using mostly pictures of Sonic 1's levels and mock-ups at the time of recording?
     
  14. Skully

    Skully

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    I don't think those are steel drums. I know musical instruments, but I just don't know the names of then, but they don't sound like steel drums to me. Also, I really do like the demo versions. Someone should make a hack where the regular music's replaced with the demo version. They're both synthesized, so I guess it could technically work. Or even just make a Sega CD version.
     
  15. Toasty

    Toasty

    BulbaSAUR! Member
    I want to talk about Hidden Palace's "real" music...the one in the final, how does everyone feel about that song? Love/hate it? Did you guys ever cycle through the sound test as a kid, come across it, and wonder where the hell this song played? Wasn't it track #10? I could never beat Death Egg (I still can't), so I imagined there was some epic ending I'd never see. It couldnt possibly be the credits, I knew the credits were a different track. Why was the song composed if HPZ was never worked on again? I don't like it...it feels like HPZ, unfinished. I can't decide if HPZ is supposed to be serious or casual, the feeling of MCZ 2P and HPZ's music are total opposites.
     
  16. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    I thought it was Hidden Palace's, because I had finished the game and that was the only known level I hadn't played yet.

    Then I started looking for it. Didn't work.
     
  17. TheOcelot

    TheOcelot

    Scooty Puff Jr sucks! Member
    I think the Mystic Cave 2p music fits perfectly in StealthTax's version of Hidden Palace due to the atmosphere, design and flow of the stage.

    As for track 10 (which was originally supposed to be cutscene music for HP), I was fascinated about this short-looping track when I was younger. I actually thought it could be an appropriate alternative track for the ending cutscene (when Tails rescues Sonic as he falls from the Death Egg at the end of Sonic 2). Other than that track 10 doesn't seem to fit anywhere else.

    In Sonic 2 Remastered track 10 is used in "Proto Palace" (StealthTax's recreation of the original incomplete version of HP). It's such a nice nostalgia trip. Fits the stage quite well.
     
  18. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Speaking of, it would have been amazing if they could have finished that version according to the original designs, but I guess no maps of it survived...
     
  19. Toasty

    Toasty

    BulbaSAUR! Member
    Was HPZ's final music in the Simon Wai beta in any form? If I'm remembering correctly every single zone that appeared in the final had music in the beta (even if the level was unfinished or didn't exist at all) except HPZ. Why did it suddenly in the final game, on a level that hadn't been worked on since the beginning of development?
    I guess I lived under a rock as a kid, I had no idea about HPZ until the internet, which we didn't get until the late 90s...
     
  20. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    In Europe (or at least in Spain), we got footage of most of the Hidden Palace demo prior to release, plus some screenshots of it from the only prototype build that still hasn't been unearthed, I believe.