"Multiple" new Sonic games planned for 2021

I just want a game with the Mania engine with entirely unique locations. That's my dream game. Mania was fantastic though even if it reused locations for no apparent reason.

Generations also would've been perfect for me if it had new locations.

Basically I want classic Sonic gameplay and character design in an entirely original game that doesn't have to remind me what Green Hill Zone is for the 20th time.

 

Agreeing with the sentiment on Black Knight. Just letting you use the stick to move immediately puts it above Secret Rings. And even though everyone mocked the idea of Sonic swordplay, in practice it's pretty fun.

Sidenote since we're on them: Secret Rings marks the only time I ever threw my Wiimote, and it landed 2 feet in front of me on the floor. Thus my go-to response anytime there was a Wiimote-through-TV story was "How hard are you idiots swinging these things?"

 

I don't really get why people think Black Knight has a good story. I remember it being unintentionally funny in how the story was Final Fantasy-esque, with villains changing very abruptly and the plot randomly ending and re-starting halfway through the game. I remember the dialogue being awful and spouting exposition like in the Adventure games too. Maybe I'd like it more if I rewatched it? But I remember preferring the story of Secret Rings, even if that was also hilariously over the top and melodramatic too, especially with the final boss. But Secret Rings was so off the wall bonkers that I found it more entertaining

I dunno, if I'd want a story like that I'd play Final Fantasy or Persona, which have similar melodramatic plots but are actually entertaining at doing them.

 

At least one reviewer complained about the delayed sword swings, and strangely I didn't see it when I played the game. I found the swing delays worse in Twilight Princess. Would you say Black Knight had it worse than that game?

Because unlike Final Fantasy, Black Knight doesn't ask to be taken seriously. It knows how absurd the concept of Sonic wielding a sword in an Arthurian legend setting is and has fun with it, from giving Sonic a snarky talking sword to argue with, to having Sonic's friends play the roles of the Knights of the Round Table. The fun and lighthearted story was a welcome change of pace after games with overdramatic and edgy stories like Shadow and Sonic '06.

 

I still haven't played it, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but I will say that Sonic's speech in the ending is just as cheesy and out-of-character to me as Secret Rings', where he wishes for an enormous pile of hankies. I mean, maybe I'd like it better in context, but I think it's awfully weird to hear Sonic waxing philosophical about the impermanence of life. It kind of reminds me of Goku's "hope of the universe" speech in the English dub of DBZ. Sonic's personality in the 2000s often lacked attitude after SA2, and in that context, I finally understand why the kiddies thought Shadow was cooler. But, I have heard the dialogue is a lot of fun in the REST of the game, and I still have way more patience for motion controls than most, so I'm still looking forward to it!

I'd guess that Black Knight is also buoyed by being Jason Griffith's last game, and the last one that Shiro Maekawa wrote for, and I can see why the "every world has its end" speech might hit different if that was THE Sonic you grew up with. For similar reasons, I've already seen people getting a bit misty-eyed about Forces' ending.

 

That's exactly why I prefer Secret Rings, it's far funnier

 

Black Knight is alright, certainly better than Secret Rings but that's not a hard bar to clear when Secret Rings is already batting less. Its a 2009 Wii game, so wagglefest was abundant but it wasn't as egregious as in Skyward Sword, you're just flicking the remote briefly. And honestly, having Sonic do a homing attack with a sword through a horde of enemies was satisfying as fuck. The cutscene presentation is pretty unique too tbh, as I really dig the use of a storybook aesthetic to tell the story.

Honestly, this really comes down to how much can you just buy into the nonsense of the story. It's as absurd as most of the games from that period, but its so damn earnest about it that it won people over. I don't care what you guys say, Sonic wearing Saint Seiya armor to an instrumental of It Doesn't Matter from SA1 will never not be cool to see. I dunno, I just find it easier to vibe with this series when its just being earnest rather than being constantly reminded that I shouldn't be taking any of this seriously.

If that's not your thing, fine but I think that's why people give it praise. It did its own thing and wore that flag proudly as opposed to being somewhat insecure about it. Find it a lot easier to buy into Sonic stuff when its just being honest about itself. There's nothing I really find out of place about Sonic talking about life, since he's a character that's constantly blazing forward.

 

The speech where he says that "we've got to live life to its fullest in the time we have"? I mean, you may find it cheesy, but that outlook has always been part of his character. The Japanese Sonic 1 box art outright says that you should do what you want to do when you can instead of wasting your time, as "it's the only way to live a life without regrets". His theme song It Doesn't Matter clearly states that he never looks back on the past because "time won't wait" and he "got so much to do".

 

That's fine, but there's a big difference between the character waxing philosophical in dialogue, versus an image song conveying his outlook. I agree that in broad strokes, the sentiment is part of his character, but to use my earlier analogy: It's the difference between Goku saying he's a Saiyan from Earth who's here to defeat Freeza, versus declaring himself the "HOPE OF THE UNIVERSE" and the "ANSWER TO ALL LIVING THINGS WHO CRY OUT FOR PEACE."

But, I guess the litmus test I'm using is the OVA, and I can't see OVA Sonic ever saying that. I think of him as being too brash of a character to be so openly introspective, and I'd rather the whole "when you want to do something, do it right then" aspect come through in his actions.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy stupid, nonsense stories. I think Adventure 1 and 2 have very entertaining stories. I just don't think Black Knight really gets me going, but then I haven't played it in over a decade so hard to say. I do think the final boss of Secret Rings really gets me going mind, but that's really because of how hilariously over the top it is.

I think if you are going to do such a ridiculous story if has to be absolutely ridiculous. I honestly think Sonic 06's story would have been received far more warmly if the game wasn't so dreadful, because it's absurd that I do think it's entertaining.

 

I'd much prefer a Sonic game with an actual story, but the anachronistic nature of the Storybook games makes it so I don't really care if the plot is goofy or cliche. It felt to me like that was the point of putting Sonic in a storybook; it's the weird juxtaposition that happens when a non-Arthurian video game character is placed into an Arthurian premise. The silliness was kinda charming for me, but I didn't expect much else. Also Secret Rings had Sonic running on top of dinosaurs, so the humor really speaks for itself

Also good point Laura about the decade thing, I'm sure a lot of us just remember the story being good or bad bc that's we felt then. Today I might just think it's terrible, but I think I'd still find it funny and cute

 

Black Knight's story isn't on the same scale as say, Adventure 2 but it's still pretty over the top on its own right. Like I said, Sonic wears Saint Seiya armor while It Doesn't Matter is blaring in the background, that's as over the top as it gets. It definitely is in line with the rest of that time period for Sonic.

It's not particularly deep or anything; even the whole life talk is pretty anecdotal to the entire game; it's just a typical Sonic story that shows off the best of his character without being ironic about it.

 

I remember back in the day I had a subscription to The Beano MAX, a monthly spinoff to The Beano (Can anyone confirm if it still exists? I imagine not, thanks to the proliferation of online media.) Even that magazine mocked the absurdity of Sonic in the Arthurian setting, and bashed the game as boring. Having never played the game myself I don’t have any feelings on it, I just wanted to share that little anecdote.

Anyway, monkey brain that I am, I’d love to see a game in the style of the Advance trilogy built in the Retro/Star engine. Specifically I’d love to see it bring back the style and mechanics of Advance 2, trick system and all, albeit with level design that’s less dickish and without that game’s do-or-die moments. It’s always a thrill to see Advance 2 played at peak performance and I think the aerial movement given to Sonic and friends thanks to the trick system really gets the philosophy of the original games without just copying them mechanically.

 

I actually disagree a bit that this happens. In my long history with the franchise, I have noticed that the same factions that tend not to like a game, for the most part remain that way. What happens is, this franchise is old enough that new factions develop every few years with the various changes sonic goes through and the new group is too young to either be aware of or understand the criticism that sonic faced at an earlier time. I've seen this happen so many times it's like clock work.
Sonic unleashed is another great example (after 06) of a game that was hated by reviewers at release, still is today by the same lot....but a different group of fans always appreciated it and today have youtube platforms to talk about it.
Sonic colors...loved by reviewers at the time, still is, but many adventure era fans hated this direction from the beginning and still do, haven't changed and just became more vocal over the past few years as they got older and bigger on social media.
Mind you, I'm not suggesting people aren't capable of changing their opinion (especially as they age) but on the whole this is what happens more often than not. The franchise just isnt a monolith and people have to stop treating it like Sonic fans are wishy washy and don't know what they want. Yes they absolutely do, it's just different "groups" asking for different stuff.


(I use the word group loosely because it's not as if you're in a gang. You're allowed to like whatever you want. I feel like this shouldn't need to be said but let me put it in here anyway before someone attacks me...)

 

Fair enough

 

I couldn't agree with this more, but with Advance 3. Maybe ditch the character team system, but I think the hub worlds and chao collecting were pretty nifty, and I love the direction they took with the bonus levels and bosses. Just get someone to sit the Dimps employees down in a room and teach them a masterclass on how to create special stages that don't make the player wanna cry.

 

I actually love Advance 3 for its pair mechanic tbh, especially how each pair has a unique mechanic for each combo. As I’ve stated previously in this thread, I think Advance 3’s failing is in its level design - it’s not godawful, but I think it’s tendency to be huge, sprawling and abstract without the focus of a game like Mania leaves it feeling cluttered and forgettable.

DIMPS special stages are absolute dreadful though, I agree there. Maybe something like the Lost World Mach sections could work as a special stage in future? Sure, it kind of just reverses the half pipe but I think that alone could allow for new mechanics, such as bonus paths being accessible by jumping away from the main route at the certain points, or bringing back special stage exits in the form of walls or portals that cut off parts of the track.

 

Advance 3 is a game I can't help but wish had a modding scene. The mechanics are there, but the level design really does bring the whole thing down. I'd love to mess with the character combinations and their movesets in zones that are more fun to run around in. (I wouldn't mind some more straight-forward hubs, either. I appreciate that they're there, but some of them really are a pain to navigate.)