"Multiple" new Sonic games planned for 2021

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by The Joebro64, Sep 7, 2020.

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  1. Hanging Waters

    Hanging Waters

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    Can I just posit something for a second here?

    I always genuinely suspected that Boom was a sort of "Schrodinger's Reboot". I think they may have been ready and willing to reboot the entire franchise and replace modern Sonic with Boom Sonic, BUT it all depended on whether or not the Boom media was as successful as they'd hoped it would be. So they told people it wouldn't replace modern Sonic to assuage fears, but I had this feeling that they planned to just produce more and more content if it turned out to be profitable for them. Not saying I think Sonic Team are lying snakes or whatever, but I just always had the suspicion that Sonic Team wouldn't have invested in Boom unless they were ready to capitalize on its potential success. I mean it makes sense when you think about it, right? Of course they said they wouldn't replace modern Sonic, but they also knew that Boom Sonic wasn't super well received. But if Boom was mega successful, why wouldn't they run with it?
     
  2. Azookara

    Azookara

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    I don't think it was Sonic Team's choice to do Sonic Boom at all.

    Seems a lot like Sega executives pushed the idea of a "schroedinger's reboot", as you mentioned, because I remember reading at the time Boom was announced that Sonic games from Japan would take a significant backseat to the 'new direction' of the series in the west. I'm not sure where I remember reading that, but it's definitely a stand-out memory of that time period. What is common knowledge is that Iizuka and ST staff spent a lot of time wrestling with Boom designers on what they think should be allowed for the series; Iizuka in particular didn't seem to happy about it's existence in livestreams SoJ would do for Rise of Lyric.

    It's also worth noting that during the same period of time Boom was being conceptualized that Sonic Team staff were beginning to part from Sega, many seeming to sneak their way into Nintendo after working with them on Olympic titles. If my memory serves me right about the "backseat" statement then I don't think that's a coincidence, considering the events going on concurrently with their move.
     
  3. See that's something I like to point out. As bad of a game as it was, Sonic 06 reeked of passion and ambition. It wanted to be the biggest, baddest, most over the top incredible sonic game of all time. It unfortunately didn't stick the landing, but that's a duscussion for another day.

    Recent games like lost world and forces on the other hand, feel so generic and dead to me- like, I can't put my finger on it, but 06 has something that lost world and forces don't. When I'm playing 06, I can actually get invested in the world, the characters, and the story, and (unpolished-ness aside) enjoy the game for what it tried to be. But when I play lost world and forces, I'm just spending my time thinking of all the things they could've been, and find it hard to appreciate what they are, you get me?

    I don't care if the next game is classic, adventure, or boost- I just want a d*** good game with passion and ambition again. No more of this playing it safe, pandering to the crowd stuff. Gimme a sonic game that defies everything I want from the series, so long as it has heart.
     
  4. Myles_Zadok

    Myles_Zadok

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    "Ambitious" is a bit subjective, though. While I would agree with you that 06 is more ambitious than Forces, someone else might not see it that way. It's all a matter of perspective.
     
  5. Agreed, but I will say this...

    There's a difference between giving everything you have for a game that fails to meet an impossible deadline-

    And spending 3 of a 4 year development cycle working on the lighting engine and not even the actual game itself.

    One clearly had more love put into it than the other. It's not the devs fault that they had to ignore the bugs sent in by the testers due to that stupid holiday release. Forces's fate was by choice. Hedgehog engine 1 worked just fine.
     
  6. Hanging Waters

    Hanging Waters

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    If that's the case and Sonic Team had no say in Boom, that is one huge bummer. Imagine heading a beloved long-running franchise that has basically become your own child at this point, and being forced to smile and nod while executives hold you at figurative gunpoint and pretty much make a joke of it. It's like a Saw movie.
     
  7. I saw part of a stream earlier in which aaron webber talked about the future of sonic (before he moved on to wherever he is now) and there he plainly stated just how big sonic mania was for sonic team. And Iizuka within the last year or so as well about how they've "finally turned a corner" after mania. Thinking about it, there's really no way SEGA is really going to toss that all in the shed, it would make absolutely zero sense even if it were based on some petty feelings which is awkward to even speculate on. They were quite involved in the game as well as the indy guys.

    And reading a bit about this new Sonic prime, it actually occured to me that what may be happening now is not a consolidation into a single sonic. As has been stated in this thread, they already did that in 1998.

    So think about this instead: the multiverse angle, story of redemption...I think they could instead be trying to unite the sonics, without actually putting it all into one character and alienating one faction versus another. Im not sure how they would accomplish this within a single title but maybe their approach is to say, "sonic has been many things, and can be many things. Learn to appreciate them all." So instead of their being a "modern" and a classic, they may just be trying to create a reality where each and all of the factions can rightfully see their sonic as valid without pointing fingers at one another. And instead of shoehorning them all into one game, they may be advertising that the future doesn't belong to one sonic but to all. I'd be a little confused about what that meant for game design though. Maybe it means there just won't be a single continuity; we could see a Sonic Adventure 3 and then the next title be Sonic 5, or something.

    Anyway, just a thought. But yeah, this recent rumor would really fly in the face of all the enthusiasm visible from webber, Iizuka, and company as recently as last year.
     
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  8. Azookara

    Azookara

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    The thing that Iizuka, Webber and Sonic Team as a whole were fired up about with Mania was the collaborative process with industry-level fans, and how they could help shape the future of the series, NOT the fact that classic Sonic existed.

    We have seen direct action since the successes of Manias reception and that angle being followed up, from the IDW comics to the animated shorts to hiring Tyson for the movie to... well, this next step where handling of all the shot calling and creative decisions is in an American “Sonic Pillar” branch where they have easier access to that communication between the parties.
     
  9. Josh

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    We have very little idea of what was going on behind the scenes with either project. Just because Forces isn't riddled with glitches doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't rushed, wasn't created under dire time or budget constraints, or that it's anything close to what the devs wanted it to be. In fact, given things like the radical differences between GHZ in the concept art versus the finished product, the far more difficult/less automated version of Mortar Canyon, and the evidence that Sunset Heights, Park Avenue, and Red Gate Bridge were all meant to be one long stage, I'd pretty much guarantee it wasn't.

    It really is, and I'm saying this as someone who probably had a hand in helping to popularize the term being applied to early 3D Sonic. I just searched, and it shows up nearly every script I wrote for 'em, haha.

    I think it's sort of a situation where "time heals all wounds," y'know? Nobody, but NOBODY was giving Sonic 06 any credit for having "passion and ambition" when it came out. But years later, when it's so far behind us, people are more willing to give it a measure of credit for the concepts it had regardless of how poorly they were executed, ESPECIALLY if those concepts are things they'd like to see again.

    I mean, speaking for myself, I know I have a kinder outlook on Forces now that I did when it came out. At the time, I compared it against my expectations: More than anything else, I wanted something that lived up to or (hopefully) exceeded the boost gameplay I loved so much in Unleashed and Generations, and Forces didn't even come close. But years removed from those expectations, I'm better able to judge it on its own merits, and find a measure of appreciation for some of the things it was trying to do.

    And if we NEVER get another game that uses the boost formula and Forces is the last one? I know that measure is only gonna get stronger. So yeah, I think that's primarily why people are a lot kinder to the games of the 2000s now. Well, that and nostalgia. We all have a ton of reverence for the way Sonic was when we were kids, yeah? :V
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  10. Its starting to feel like Sonic games only get appreciated after the fact.
     
  11. MH MD

    MH MD

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    Those radical differences are more of a change of direction thing than a rushed thing, they deliberately made the level design more simple, they even made some comparison in some GDC conference i believe? where they show 2 different pictures of how they "improved" level design, and the first picture that supposed to be the "bad one" actually looked better and more challenging, which was funny.

    and usually concept arts are just that...Concept Art, they don't always turn into a reality in the final product, even with games that took years and had great production time and released with critical success, you can spot some concept arts that are waaaaay different , that what makes reading art books of said products that much fun.

    i wouldn't say "nobody" at all, it was noticed at the time, how grand it presented itself through trailers etc, how they made the world with so many NPCs and side quest, so many playable characters, Mach sections "as sucky as they are" and how grand the story seemed at the time, that we were discussing it with friends with passion at the time of release, and we were like...12? 13? even when knowing how the game sucked, it was still obvious to us how it was the biggest sonic game to release yet and the most ambitious.

    I can say the same for Unleashed, which i followed it more closely from the first teaser to release, i loved that game and appreciated it from release, even with warts and all, so when i see "new appreciation for Unleashed in recent years", it's not new to me, i always saw the game for what it was and what it tried to achieve and how ambitious it was, it feels like only more people are starting to get what i felt years ago.
     
  12. Hanging Waters

    Hanging Waters

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    I'd say Forces was extremely ambitious from a narrative perspective, but in terms of gameplay and scope it seems pretty run-of-the-mill.

    They wrote a plot where Sonic gets tortured and jailed (in space), Eggman successfully takes over the entire world, almost every major villain from Modern Sonic's past returns... It's just funny that none of that stuff gets realized in any meaningful way.
     
  13. Josh

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    I think we're well past the point where it's been like that more often than not, at least when it comes to Sonic Team. Since I got online, the only Sonic Team-developed games I felt were mostly liked by the fandom (or at least, the circles I was in) on release were... Sonic Jam, Adventure, Colors, Generations, and uh... hm, I guess that's it!

    Everything else has either been divisive ("love it or hate it" games like SA2 or Unleashed), tremendously disappointing and therefore personally insulting (Heroes, Shadow, 06, Forces), or I guess, "garbage, but we've been burned too many times, and we were expecting garbage" (Black Knight, Lost World, Forces for oldbies :V).
     
  14. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    Hey, I'll not have Black Knight slandered in here, I thought it was a great game :V
     
  15. Josh

    Josh

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    Actually, come to think of it, SECRET RINGS of all things got a really positive reception on release, and I remember people describing Black Knight as being much WORSE than it. I think it comes down to some key context:

    First, Secret Rings was only a few months after 06, and anything would've felt like a breath of fresh air after that. But more importantly, the Wii was brand new, there weren't many games out for it, VERY few people could even find one, and motion controls were still a novelty. So if you were enough of a Nintendo diehard that you actually had a Wii in early 07, you were probably in a position to enjoy it. Also, it had some of the best visuals of anything on the console to that point.

    And I dunno, I still remember it fondly. I think it's pretty fun once you grind enough to get some upgrades, and the soundtrack is awesome! But like, I totally get why people hate it, too.

    I agree completely. I've heard it compared before to Nintendo's claim that the DS would be a "third pillar" next to the Game Boy and home console lines. They were giving themselves an out, in case their bizarre, "gimmicky" dual-screen concept failed to take off. But it DID take off, and we haven't had a Game Boy since. Similarly, I think if Sonic Boom had done what Sega wanted it to and created a new generation of fans, it definitely would've become the new "default" face of the brand. And actually, it WAS positioned as such for a few years.

    [​IMG]

    (I wonder, if Boom had become the default Sonic, if we'd have gotten into arguments 20 years later about whether Boom Sonic and Millennium Sonic were really the same character? :V)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  16. It should be noted that Black Knight's praise is MAINLY for its writing, because I hear next to nothing about the actual game itself. Which should tell you everything you need to know about it.
     
  17. Overlord

    Overlord

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    If it plays anything like the atrocious Secret Rings (featuring bosses you have to make fapping motions rapidly to defeat!) you can fully understand why. When 06 and Secret Rings came out I had both, and whichever I'd played more recently was the one I hated more.
     
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  18. The Joebro64

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    No, the gameplay is really fun. The only issue I had is that sword-swinging is slightly delayed. Otherwise it's a ton of fun. Also, it handles the non-Sonic playable characters very, very well.
     
  19. Hanging Waters

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    Tbh I agree TheJoeBro. It's been a while since I last sat down with it, but I remember enjoying Black Knight. At least compared to Secret Rings you had control over the character, and the swordplay was actually kinda fun IMO. It was an actual game, and not just a glorified endless runner / shakeweight simulator, although I'd prefer no motion controls whatsoever.

    Although I put Black Knight significantly above Secret Rings, the latter DID have some pretty good minigames in the party game mode.
     
  20. qwertysonic

    qwertysonic

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    This does fit into the leak of a 2D game featuring modern characters. Like the Sonic Advance trilogy, it could be a game that used solid genesis-style physics with a more modern cast and graphics. I wouldn't be against that.
    If Taxman did it
     
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