Mr. Needlemouse Makes an Appearance

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Gryson, Jan 24, 2021.

  1. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Even the Japanese box art for Sonic 1-3 have the "Sonic Team Presents" branding.

    Edit: And the Sonic CD cover has it as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  2. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    No, and I feel like this is the kind of attitude that makes these misconceptions thrive. This is why the Wikipedia pages called Sonic Team the developer of Sonic 2, CD, and 3&K for a decade in spite of the fact that this was demonstrably false. They may have called themselves Sonic Team, but as an actual, tangible entity, Sonic Team did not exist for five years after Sonic 1 was released. We know which teams really developed the games.
     
  3. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    I didn't say anything about Sonic 2, CD or 3K. You claimed that Sonic Team didn't exist until 1996, and the "Sonic Team" name wasn't an "official designation" prior to that, which is rather dismissive of the fact that the team that made Sonic 1 officially called themselves that in the released product.
     
  4. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    While I don't disagree with the sentiment that the Wiki pages should carry specified factual info, I think saying that Sonic 1 wasn't developed by Sonic Team is needlessly playing semantics. The teams on each game were headed by mostly the same people, so I see no reason for us to stop referring to them as Sonic Team colloquially just because that wasn't technically a real department at Sega. The fact that each game is "presented by Sonic Team" on the box art leads me to believe that calling themselves that was officially approved on some level, even though it wasn't a designated team within the company yet.
     
  5. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    I think most wikis have it right btw, with stating that Sonic Team was not an official division prior to 1996, but clarifying that it was a branding before that and the core people thought of themselves as Sonic Team.

    (Even if they were back by other teams)
     
  6. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    Then you should have specified that, because your post made it sound like you were referring to all of the classic Sonic games.
    No, it isn't dismissive. It's simply a fact. Yes, the team added a "Sonic Team Presents" message at the tail end of development. But they weren't Sonic Team as we know them today. Maybe if you spent years researching these things and having to correct them like I have, you'd see this differently.
     
  7. David The Lurker

    David The Lurker

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    I feel the only place it'd fit on the Sonic 1 development page is as a caption underneath any of the images that have the original "Mr. Harinezumi" text. But I'd make the argument that "Mr. Needlemouse" should be missing from the development page entirely. The best place for it would be where Sega made use of the name - as the codename for Sonic the Hedgehog 4. Sega wholeheartedly embraced the mistranslation at that point, so it feels like the best place to explain why Needlemouse was ever a thing in the first place. Either way, I agree the Needlemouse page doesn't need to exist. Have it redirect to somewhere, and the misconception can erode over time.

    I'm not into this idea. Because where would the line be drawn? It could easily be turned into a sprawling mess of a page, putting down misconceptions that most people would go "Um. Are you sure most people thought this was a thing?" The idea of the wiki is to update it until it's the most accurate resource that exists, correct? That by having The Facts, the mistruths are slowly cleared up. Maybe if this was the wiki of ten years ago, it'd make more sense, but personally, it doesn't feel like it belongs. There are pages on the wiki where individual misconceptions can be cleared up, and having one huge list seems a little redundant. Not to mention there's no need to catalogue every small one that's ever been. Not on Retro, at least.

    Let's be honest, the reason this is confusing is because Sega has made it confusing. Yes, "Sonic Team" wasn't officially named by Sega. They were a group who worked close together in a way they hadn't before, and gave themselves a fun little nickname that ended up appearing when you turned on the game. Someone at Sega had to sign off on that - it wasn't hidden in the code. Their real names were hidden, but not "Sonic Team." Even more, it was placed on the cover art, which meant they wanted it to be important. Someone must have seen the worth of that name, and then continued to use it.

    The name wasn't used on every Sonic game that came out in Japan over the next few years. It was on the core titles - 2, 3, Knuckles, and CD - and two Game Gear games, Sonic 2 and Sonic Drift. "Sonic Team" went missing as branding on the rest of the Game Gear titles. What was the reasoning behind that? They didn't slap "Sonic Team" on every game with Sonic's face. Maybe someone from the original game complained when they noticed Drift? Maybe it was an oversight and it was too late to fix it? Who knows.

    Either way, Sega clearly wanted people to think that the team behind the first game were involved in those subsequent installments, even if the core three members never teamed up for a Sonic game again. What makes it more confusing is that, when Sonic Team did become its own studio, the four Mega Drive games were listed as Sonic Team games. You look at the booklet they handed out at the Tokyo International Forum unveiling, they're listed as part of their gameography. When you insert Sonic Adventure into a CD-Rom Drive, there's a text file that has a "series bibliography" which lists the four Mega Drive Titles, Jam, and Adventure. They were retroactively made part of the catalogue. Except for CD, guess that came even later.

    We can get weirder about Sonic Team. Go to sonicteam.com right now. You look at their list of games. Oh, there's Space Channel 5. United Game Artists made that!...but they merged into Sonic Team later. I guess they're a Sonic Team game now? I don't know anyone who would call that a Sonic Team game, but in casual conversation, I'd call Sonic 3 a Sonic Team game. Even though, yes, it was a group of Japanese developers who worked at the Sega Technical Institute, hiding in their own offices avoiding the American staff as they worked on Spinball and Comix Zone.

    oh this is probably the easier way to say everything i said above
     
  8. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

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    I've rethought my position. I think it's necessary to list misconceptions that official sources take for granted in the appropriate context (such as discrediting "needlemouse" in the Sonic 1 early development article and the Sonic 4 article), but a dedicated catch-all misconceptions page is probably going to go off the rails eventually and be a needless distraction.