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[Master System] Marble Zone music found in Sonic 1!

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Kroc, Nov 23, 2013.

  1. Sappharad

    Sappharad

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    This is veering completely off course, but the results would be far different if he was comparing the performance against Paint.NET 4.0 instead of 3.5. Of course, the article is old so that can't be helped. 4.0 is noticeably faster overall, at least it was for me because I had been used to the performance of v3x after using it for years.

    Back to the topic of the editor, the UI looks very nice for a windows 8 style application. I hate the default look of 8 though, so I have Windowblinds installed to fix that problem. It would be nice if you could offer an office 2010 style in addition to your office 2013 style. But I don't think you deserve any complaints if you don't want to do that, because at least you're doing the Windows 8 style better than Microsoft has been in their own products.
     
  2. Sounds almost like Lunar Magic, but for Sonic. If it's easy enough to use, I can see myself playing around with this quite a lot. I haven't done much with the MD Sonic games mainly because I found SonED2 rather difficult to use.
     
  3. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    I saw a PLAY Tab... It couldn't be what I think it is...

    W... would this somehow imply that you could test-play the level within the editor???
     
  4. Kroc

    Kroc

    Code is Art Tech Member
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    MaSS1VE: The Master System Sonic 1 Visual Editor
    Unfortunely not! The PLAY tab assembles a ROM which can be launched in your emulator or dragged into explorer to take a copy.

    If the disassembly gets sufficiently documented, then it could be possible to port the Z80 code to the editor, but that's beyond scope at the moment.
     
  5. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

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    It's the first theme listed as unused, 8A. The second (92) seems to be an unused Good Ending credits theme.
     
  6. Sappharad

    Sappharad

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    If calling .NET code from VB6 is something that performs well, you could easily integrate emulation code directly into your tool if that's a more realistic approach. The SMS/GG core from BizHawk is rather easy to integrate and use, you would just need to pass input in and call the methods to grab the framebuffer (and optionally sound) data back out. (I know how easy it is to integrate, having maintained the OS X / Linux branch of their repo for over a year now.)
     
  7. Kroc

    Kroc

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    MaSS1VE: The Master System Sonic 1 Visual Editor
    (I prefix this comment with the disclaimer that any embedded emulation in the editor is beyond scope at the moment and would have to wait for a mythical 'v2.0' as it would depend upon a complete disassembly first)

    IMO, embedding an emulator engine/view would not bring any benefits over being able to use your emulator (and configuration) of choice, especially when it comes to debuggers. Regardless if the emulation occurs within a window in the editor or in an external emulator, the disconnect will be all the same as you jump from a full mapped view of the level to the little 256-wide viewport of the Master System.

    If I wanted to do in-editor play-testing I would instead create a small Z80 virtual machine and hook the necessary RAM addresses / ports to have the sprites move around and interact within the full mapped view of the editor -- not a separate window / viewport. That way one can draw something, move the Sonic sprite around what you've drawn, pause it, and then edit right there without having to jump back and forth between views.
     
  8. Alien Treasure

    Alien Treasure

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    Exploring Ristar's code, Sonic 1-3K Advance
    Oh boy, this grew big rather quickly. I hope MaSS1VE becomes an all-purpose editor for the 8-bit games as SonED2 is for the 16-bit ones someday. I dunno why, but I always liked them more.
     
  9. Ravenfreak

    Ravenfreak

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    It could be if Kroc is wanting the editor to work with Aspect's engine as well, Sonic 2, Chaos, and Triple Trouble were made by Aspect as opposed to Sonic 1 which was Ancient. Chaos and Triple trouble were made off of Sonic 2's engine, and we do have a editor for Sonic 2, Chaos, and Triple Trouble but it would be pretty interesting to see such a editor become a reality someday. :)
     
  10. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    S1Fixed: A successor to ReadySonic
    You mean SonLVL, right?
     
  11. Kroc

    Kroc

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    Don't get ahead of me! :v: It's taken several months already to get where I am, and I've had to do practically everything from scratch -- including teaching myself Z80 and programming a new UI set. There was some ROM documentation, which made this whole project possible in the first place, but it was full of holes and errors. I've practically rewritten the SCHG page several times already! :)

    It's hard to understand unless you undertake such a project yourself (though most here do undertake incredible projects all the time!) just how big, complex, and difficult such a thing is as writing an editor. I'm at a "proof of concept" stage at the moment (I proved it was possible to read the ROM's data, modify it, and write back a working ROM -- something I didn't even know was possible in the beginning). As far as editing goes, I don't have much to show yet (literally, painting floor tiles and that's it), but all this time has been spent doing a crap-tonne of research and groundwork.

    My plans are big. Many editing tools just twiddle the bits in place, and don't really let you explore designs much beyond the already existing level structures and game progression. I believe that creativity can only flourish with a blank canvas and so I am putting in all the extra work required to bust the game completely apart and allow making a total conversion (new art / levels / sound / gameplay) from scratch -- with the one app. Of course, that necessitates a full disassembly which alone is an insane undertaking for someone who didn't even know Z80 until a few weeks ago!

    MaSS1VE is a several year project. I have planned thoroughly; I have pages of design briefs beating out the next year or more of UI work. I have spent months alone on turning a piece of code for testing the ability to extract the ROM's data into a 'product'. I believe in "release early, release often" so I have put in automatic updates so that once people start using it I can iterate quickly towards a real tool that people want to use for creative things.

    Therefore, because MaSS1VE will be so innately tuned to the inner workings of Sonic 1, right down to the assembly, I can't say that it will ever handle the sequels -- it's just not within scope. I started this project because it stunned me that no editor for S1 existed, not even partially. There are already editors and disassemblies for the sequels and I didn't want to do something that already existed. If you want better editors for the sequels, you need to contribute to those projects or start a new one! :)