Make me a demo game!

Discussion in 'Mobius Engine Project' started by Gen, Apr 17, 2012.

  1. Covarr

    Covarr

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    Except "what the engine can do" includes any graphical effects. This isn't based on an established graphics engine the way SonicGDK is, so people aren't gonna know what it's visually capable of unless the demo shows it.

    My thought is that the demo should have a good variety of enemies, each with a unique behavior, to help show off whatever scripting engine ends up being used. Even just a few would go a long way.
     
  2. In my opinion, I think that the simplest way to showcase what the engine can do would be to have a four-level demo. One level would be a side-scrolling, Classic-Sonic area. Because people are the most demanding about the physics being as absolutely close as possible to the original Genesis games, the easiest way to show them off would be to remake a level from the Genesis games. Personally, I would suggest something such as Angel Island zone, or Mushroom Hill Zone. Being as they're the first level to their respective games, it would be easiest to have one window open for an emulator of the original game, and one window open for the tech-demo game, so a side-by-side comparison would be incredibly easy to do. Also, seeing as these levels have the most elaborate artwork for intro levels, seeing their reinterpretations in 3D polygons would do very good to show off the graphical capabilities.

    The second level for the demo would showcase a Sonic Adventure-style level. This would show off the engine's capabilities for a free-roaming type level. An original level, rather than a remake, would be best since the physics aren't going to be such an issue. (I may be wrong in that regard, though) I'm not very worried about the setting for the level, but it would probably be best to design it to show off as much that can be done as possible without relying on pre-scripted events.

    Third level would be a Modern-Sonic, racetrack-style level just like Unleashed or Generations. Again, it would mainly be to showcase the engine's capabilities for such a level, and would do best as an original level instead of a remake.

    Finally, the fourth level would be a boss fight, to show how the engine can handle large enemy bosses rather than just designing typical enemies like would be in the normal levels. Personally, I think the coolest idea for a boss fight in a 3D engine such as this would be to do a re-imagining of the final (non-Super Sonic) boss from Sonic & Knuckles. It could be a 2D battle for the first phase where you attack the hands, and then transition to a 3D battle for the second phase where it's chasing Sonic while firing flames and energy blasts from the Master Emerald.

    Basically, I think that four levels like this would be the best way to show off all the possible design choices that your typical Sonic fangame-designer would want to make. It would show off being able to do just about all the typical things seen in Sonic games to date, and could have the occasional unusual trick (Starlight Carnival-style gravity, for example) to show that the scripting engine would be robust enough to do anything that's not immediately available out-of-the-box.
     
  3. Azu

    Azu

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    I would use simple models though. That is unless you'll find someone model all those levels.
     
  4. Candescence

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    Either that, or make some heightmaps for terrain, and assemble the rest of the level content with models as "building blocks", like, well, most games these days.
     
  5. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    I have a 3D Green Hill Zone sitting around over here...
    there are about 150 level chunks so that custom layouts can be produced.
     
  6. Twilightzoney

    Twilightzoney

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    I'd like to see you tackle both physics styes of classic and modern for peoples choice preferences, and then have the 3d and 2.5 splines for guiding paths and such for the world.

    Having it targeted at what Unreal Engine requires is more then sufficient. Doesn't mean the demo should show off the graphical power, all that material goodies can wait till you get the physics and what not down for the basic groundwork.

    The level should show off physics and slopes, have a few destroyable objects that sonic can push around. So breaking boxes or something would be neat to show. And show off a 2.5d loop, and a 3d loop that is scripted by paths. That would be good to show for a demo.

    Something akin to GDK test level, just have a water section to show running on water and water physics.

    Something like that would be good enough, no need to get all fancy with graphical things. Have a few homing attack chains to show off how Modern can go about moving, and chain of enemies for showing how high you can bounce with classic.

    Again, it doesn't have to be something huge, and glorified, a simple tech demo will be sufficient to show the progress of it. I would like to see it just gray style checker-block.
     
  7. winterhell

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    The 3D loops doesn't necessarily have to be a scripted cutscene. They can work like the loops in a 2.5D section, just that the camera is going to be at a different angle. Before you enter the loop and after you exit it the controls can continue to be 3D. But while in the loop you can only move forward and backwards.
     
  8. Gen

    Gen

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    Regarding how loops function:

    A basic versatile means of having Sonic running across any surface in the game would be to make it dependent on Sonic's speed, and the world space normal of the surface.

    If Sonic isn't moving at, say, 90MPH, then we'll say Sonic can't successfully move through a loop, where you'll have a section of the loop that'll have a surface normal Y value of -1.0 (facing down). This should generally work well enough, provided that we can account for certain edge cases (I.e., what happens when an object's surface normal splits at an edge).
     
  9. Candescence

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    Yeah, you shouldn't need to script loops, that's just silly. If you have a proper physics engine, you shouldn't need to resort to cop-outs that Sonic Team uses (or used to use, at any rate). I also personally prefer to have the camera behind Sonic as he goes through the loop, much more exhilarating.

    A single tech demo area can certainly work, but I think rather than having a bland/generic testing area like GDK, we should have an open outdoors environment to also demonstrate the graphical capabilities of the engine as well. This particular video comes to mind:



    And it's not that complex to make, you just need some terrain (make it big), and then populate it with objects, rings, enemies, etc.
     
  10. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    I just want to take a second to point out that running through a loop without scripting is entirely possible in Generations, before the Sonic Team bashing gets out of hand.
     
  11. Twilightzoney

    Twilightzoney

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    Terrain/mountains and Sonic doesn't really mix will unless you building it soley for traveling not for to gaze upon. Since we don't want to see Skyrim horses going up mountains. You'd actually have to edit the terrain a lot to get it to flow correctly for sonic to traverse it.

    And by 3d loops being scripted I mean having a path that recenters him so it doesn't make you go off track but it dependent on your speed. Generations already does this but they make their loops so huge that you need dash pads to go through, thus having no actual control over it since the speed is given to you. We need to have spline paths for 2.5d and 3d to help sonic stay on track, One for 3d being a mixture of a guide path that let you loosely move around so you can track on track where the developer wanted you to go. And another that forces you on that path but you have to have your speed still. Basically keep pushing in a direction to move and he'll keep moving.

    Since some of us don't know differences between scripted paths and scripted events. Besides Sonic team uses dash pads through 3d loops so much its a norm.
     
  12. Candescence

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    Well, to be fair, a mountain range with a proper Sonic physics engine would be rather difficult to traverse with steep enough slopes unless Sonic has the boost, so it shouldn't be that difficult to make mountains that Sonic can't simply walk up. We're not Bethesda, for pete's sake, they can't bug-test worth a damn.
     
  13. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    Mountains are bumpy though. Sonic terrain is never bumpy. I...just don't think mountains are a great idea.
     
  14. Falk

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    I guess what you could say is the terrain in Sonic is whimsical. The flipside is also true, the terrain in -some- zones are never totally flat (EHZ). I don't think it's so much that mountains per say compared to completely open areas (of which mountains would be part of the solution in hemming in... somewhat) and mountainous terrain as a trope has the easy capability of being as un-fun to play as underwater terrain.

    edit: Even in 'nods-to-real-life' zones, everyday practicality bows to the level being a sonic game. Cities (e.g. Skyscraper Scamper, Speed Highway) wouldn't actually have highways go in giant loops/corkscrews, for example. I don't think it's so much Sonic going through a delusional stint and imagining shit that isn't actually there as much as suspension of disbelief has always been a core part of the charm of the franchise.
     
  15. Candescence

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    Okay, look, the outdoors enviroment doesn't necessarily have to have mountains, it's just an example of what we COULD do with an outdoor terrain. Though mountains do help give a feeling of scale, visually.

    Hell, we could throw Sonic on an island or something. :v:
     
  16. steveswede

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    Marble Garden Zone I consider to have mountain terrain which was done in small portions both going up and down so mountain terrain like this does work but for and entire level would just be pure automation of running down hill or boosters to move you up hill.
     
  17. Aerosol

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    Well when I said, bumpy, I meant that mountains in general have rough terrain going up and down. They aren't perfect cones. Can't we have the rolling hills of an english countryside as a demo level?
     
  18. Candescence

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    That...

    That would work much better, actually. Hell, we'd be doing something actually original, I mean, when was the last time the rolling hills of an English countryside appeared in a game? :v:
     
  19. TheInvisibleSun

    TheInvisibleSun

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    Three years ago:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    I was thinking of the XP default background when I said that, too. Nevertheless, I'm fond of the idea of having some english countryside goodness. Maybe have some odd rock rock formations that look suspiciously like loops here and there.