Ah, you see; the point here is not that I'm redesigning a character. I'm not reinventing the wheel, nor do I think I should. What I'm repeatedly saying here is the more experimentation, the better. This stretches to character redesigns, because it flexes the creative muscles, so to speak. Let me state, however that I am neither for nor against character redesigns. I think if people want to do them, they should -- all work is good work, even if it doesn't get used (We can't be too precious about concepts, after all they are just concepts). Don't rule out someone doing a kickass redesign (Even a minor one, like a red neckerchief, hahahah) that is well-liked here. Try to be open-minded. It doesn't hurt anyone to see something new, even if it's going to be voted against
I mean, I really think that none of the main characters should be redesigned. As in "please don't even consider it, or this project will be a step closer to your average fangame". I'm quite open minded, but I don't want to see a good idea like this project turn into a monstruosity.
I'm going to have to agree with ICEknight. I mean, you saw how well redesigning the characters worked for Sonic Rivals and Sonic Riders, right? Knuckles has spiked gloves, Tails has two tails, Nack has a hat, and Sonic is Sonic. Do we really need to contrast them further?
It's not that Jayextee redesigned Nack in a Sonic Heroes style. His redesign looks retroish, but I kinda understand ICEknight's worries. But I also beleave we will not go far away if we just copy Sega all the time. We need some experimentation.
Honestly, I do quite like what Jay's done with the Nack redesign, as it feels reminiscent of Wile E. Coyote and Spy vs. Spy, which I would say give you all you need to know about his personality, goals, and behaviour. Redesigns are very good...though the SOAP shoes didn't look that good. :\
Sorry if it's been mentioned before, but ICEknight's reply on Sonic 2 HD's General Project Thread & Feedback [here: http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?s=&...st&p=254487 ] has just given me an idea for a new zone (if there's room for another zone, that is) How possible would it be to do a kind of WINDY zone, where you're traveling through a zone with all the trees moving in the wind, and seeing leaves blowing around - similar to the 2nd zone of Sonic 2 GG/MS [forgot what it's called] and Windy Valley(?) If you're sick of 'green hill'-style windy levels, you could always try doing an ICY version [snow storm anyone?] I'm thinking along the lines of Eggman's creating this storm/wind using a blowing machine, which of course for the boss you'll have to destroy his machine - meaning you'll be up against being blown... possibly into some kind of trap, while dodging debris/bullets/whatever that Eggman's sending towards you. How does this sound guys? You think it's a feasible/good idea? Just to remind you, I'm merely just an ideas man really, that's all [sorry ^^]
Yeah, that could fit in the autumn zone pretty damn good. I actually drew a palmtree windmill-shaped some time ago, I could pixel it and put it there.
Average fangame from characters being redesigned? Most fangames use existing sprites, so that seems a little odd to say. You know, I'd think that what would really distinguish the project from not being a piece of shit would be stuff like good level design and solid programming for enemies and gimmicks. I don't even begin to register character design when I'm thinking about what makes a game seem like a lazy piece of crap. I suppose if what you were talking about were your "average proposed fangame by some random noob", you'd be right on the money, but I don't think I can even remember the last time one of those got released. But when it comes to character redesigns, Blaze is doing a lot of that for his game, and it's nothing that could be called average. Personally, I don't like to flirt with that sort of business, since I don't want to divert my emphasis from what I find important, but I don't really think they are a problem. Especially when they are done tastefully. Every game on the Genesis saw Sonic with a new design to some degree.
Hey weren't you an administrator over at SFGHQ at one point? When did you turn so anti-fangaming? Respect man. If this game decides to go and use redesigns, which is supposedly a huge deal, you could always play one of the MANY more established fangames out there right now that go off the same exact "good idea" as this project. (Sonic Nexus, Sonic Retro/XG, E02) ...and projects that do redesign elements (originality), such as Emerald Ties, The Fated Hour, Time Attacked and even Mecha Madness are anything but average fangames, because they actually work the stuff that really matters, the gameplay. Emerald Ties has some of the best level design you'll see in a fangame. Sorry man that just really rubs me the wrong way. I'm all for them using character redesigns if it gives their project it's own unique niche in the midst of all the competition. Else, it's "just another fangame".
I'm glad to see Dimensionwarped and Shadix in my corner with this one, I'd like to know what the more general consensus is. Consider this, however. From Sonic 1 to Sonic 2, Sonic was redesigned. Admittedly, a deeper blue alone hardly constitutes a major redesign, but this change will not have happened by accident, ergo it was by design. Now, from Sonic 2 to Sonic 3 (And Knuckles), there are a whole lot more changes. Shoes are shinier, quills are sharper. Characters have overall less contrast and have those really small eyes. That's four minor changes. Did these happen by accident? Again, I think Sega knew what they were doing; the more aggresive looking Sonic (With now a visible 'tude smile - five changes) was redesigned to appeal more to the western audiences who loved Sonic a little more than the Japanese did (Also, this was more than likely the reasoning behind the early decision to have MJ do the music, even if this decision was ultimately reversed). What I'm trying to say is we should try redesigns. Let's say we go through 1,000 for each character. AND NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM WAS LIKED. That's fair, we have a very good reason for sticking to the classic designs. However, at the moment it's just arbitrary, and quite conservative to nix the idea without a reason. As for fangame-ish? Hmmmm, which "official" (Or "canon") game followed S3K...? Sonic Adventure. Which had far more of an extreme character redesign than I'm proposing here. Come on, people: discuss!
Sorry, but when I hear "redesign", I think drastic changes, not minor tweaks. The latter I don't see why we can't do, but the former we should probably avoid.
"Redesign" in most people's minds would refer to an all out change in the character model. The Sonic 1 and 2 sprites are ALMOST pixel for pixel identical except for the coloration but the 3&K, Spinball and Advance (Advance being the next honest to God 2D sequel) sprites are vastly redesigned. The Adventure/Advance look of long legs and quills, less round proportions and less highlights too me at least has the least amount of charm so If a redesigned sprite IS indeed decided upon, it would be nice for it to maintain the rounder, less EXXXXXTREEEEME look of the current sprite. again, that's just my take...
Also, could I also note that the larger, heavier (Look at the slow way in which they move; they're animated wit some real weight there) quills of the newer designs actually betray the speed Sonic's supposed to have -- smaller, lighter quills would be more aerodynamic than these almost-dreadlocks he sports now. So, of course I favour the classic look personally. Thanks for the image, Blue Cheese - I can outline what I'm talking about here. (Left to right, 1, 2, 3, S, A) Every single one of these (Bar the first, obviously) is subject to a redesign of sorts, most minor; but there are some extreme ones. Given it's development, we can assume that S (The Spinball sprite) represents the Western take on the art, and 1 would be the Eastern take (Given the increase of US development in 2 and 3/k). I'm not including A (Advance series sprite) for now, since DIMPS is a third-party. 1 - 2 are almost identical, except that Sonic now has a shiny plasticity to him, thanks for a more fully-saturated blue, and a shine. As I stated, this decision came from somewhere, it didn't happen by accident. 3 is an almost-replica of 1/2's silhouette. The rear of the sprite's head being the closest. But, Sonic's shoes are chunkier, his hands are now HUGE and he is made from 100% more plastic. He has these (In my opinion, completely soulless) small, sinister pupils and an upturned nose. He definitely looks nastier, and more aggressive than the previous two sprites. S is... something else. He does seem to be raising his fists ready, like 3 in a more aggressive manner than the "hands by side" manner of 1/2 and he's the shiniest of the bunch. Also, his quills - very longer and very curved. Is this design the missing link between Sonic the Hedgehog and that green-eyed impostor? Also, what's with the tiny, TINY little nose and beady eyes? I don't like this shade of blue, either. It's too harsh, I feel more subtlety would have benefitted. This is just garish. Also, about the shade of blue; one thought I had was of the character design initially being aimed toward gender-neutrality. Sonic's 1/CD sprite appears slightly purple next to any of his other appearances, and I think this was also intentional so as not to merely aim toward young boys. Of course, when a female-friendly character was finally added (Tails) they could refine Sonic's shade into a more masculine full blue. Just a crazy theory of mine. Anyone mind if I do a crazy sketchdump of Sonic with minor redesigns? I know there's some resistance on this, but I say don't rule anything out until you see it. I'd also like some other people to tackle this, I'd love to see what you come up with. :v:
I say go for it, people don't go to life drawing classes to draw naked people they go to practice their skills (well, most people). Likewise a load of re-designs can only be benificial in encoraging debate and providing inspiration even if we all agree against using them.
Quick idea for a minor tweak: S2's sprite color, with S1's gradient look. I like the fuller blue, but not as plastic/shiny. Just a suggestion.
Slim look, green eyes and dark blue color of SA2 and SAdv style Sonic kicks ass IMO. Best old-skool Sonic is from Sonic3, and ultimate would be a mix of these 2 styles... its gonna be a lot of drawing when something like this is going to happen. I am busy with something else right now, and it is also Sonic related and some people know about it... I've got so many things to draw.
There are elements from the first three and Advance that I think work very well. 1 and 2 have the best silhouette and over all pose but his arm always looked a bit weird to me. Like it was bent WAY too far around, and his feet pointing the way they do looks painful. The S3&K sprite was good that it added his ever present smile and fixed his hands but they over did it with the perspective of his feet so they, again, look kind of weird not to mention the beady eyes. The advance sprite did a good job of the pose in general but by then Sonic's actual character model was different so it's not as good IMHO. Taking these into account I have tried to combine them. Sonic's arm is less bent, has ever so slightly bigger hands and eyes. The quills follow the (primarily) S3&K convention of having his back spine much smaller than the head (talking sprite-wise here not official art and such) ones. His front foot is at an angle somewhere between the 1-2 and 3's stance as well as adding the buckle that has always been omitted from the sprite until Advance. I'm not a sprite artist so I tried to illustrate the points here in this quick-as-hell photoshop job... Oh! In regards to the shading and highlights of the blue, it might be important to decide how Sonic's quills are coming out from the back of his head. At first it seemed they were going with an almost shark fin-like configuration, with three rows going down the middle of the back of his head. Now days they seem to be in much bigger formations that actually define the shape of his head. Just something to consider I guess.
It looks nice in theory, but I don't think I'd like to see Sonic with a beer-belly like the one you've drawn (especially when he's sticking it out like that) - no offense :p
