Levels & Items Art

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Vincent, Apr 22, 2008.

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  1. Vincent

    Vincent

    Sonic 2HD - Project Leader & Chara Member
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    The community aspect of Sonic 2 HD is extremely important for us, even if it's quite obvious that at this moment, S2HD Staff members must work independently from the general community itself, for a moltitude of reasons which include Art coherency, speed, program sharing & decisions which would otherwise be dispersed by the mixed inputs and feedback received on every WIP stuff.

    Quality is S2HD #1 priority, and to achieve that quality the entire Staff is reworking (We're really close to completion for some areas) literally any of the past art, leaving the database more like a "Desired Contributions list", then a real update on our current status.

    Said this, that must not be misinterpreted as the community should be waiting for us to be done, because if you are an artist, love S2HD as we do and prove to be up to the job, you will surely reach our needs, even by concepts. And if you're unsure on what to contribute you can easily reach one of us to ask directions.
    "Where there's a will, there's a way".
     
  2. Endgame

    Endgame

    Formerly The Growler Member
    <!--quoteo(post=400447:date=Jan 25 2010, 09:51 PM:name=Vincent)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vincent @ Jan 25 2010, 09:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=400447">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The community aspect of Sonic 2 HD is extremely important for us, even if it's quite obvious that at this moment, S2HD Staff members must work independently from the general community itself, for a moltitude of reasons which include Art coherency, speed, program sharing & decisions which would otherwise be dispersed by the mixed inputs and feedback received on every WIP stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If the S2HD members are independently finishing off the EHZ, then how come not much is being done within the general community with ARZ concept art? It seems we seem to be stuck in a rut with minor 'disputes' over things that should've ended weeks/months ago (eg. the EHZ platform)!

    There seems to be a gap widening between what needs/has been mock-uped, what WIPs need finishing, and what needs uberizing - and what IS being uberized.

    Actually, at the moment, in <a href="http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=12307" target="_blank">"Current Project Targets - WIP Art, Available Art to Remaster & Officially accepted WIP General Art"</a>, there's almost nothing but the animals in there. So where's everything else gone? Has it all been rejected, finished or put aside somewhere? Ot hasn't it just been updated yet?


    As you should obviously know by now, I'm by no means an artist; I don't have the time or the skills for doing artwork, but I can be excellent at offering advice and suggestions on how to improve on work - and to encourage keeping people's art to be as accurate as the context we're doing it in to be.
     
  3. Gambit

    Gambit

    Sonic 2 HD Staff - Level Artist Member
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    That's a good point. I'll have to tell CK to update that to include some other stuff. I think he was just thinking about what we need for the alpha, but since the staff is kinda working on Emerald Hill we do need to update that to show everyone else what there is to do.

    I actually get on this board every morning all stoked up because I keep thinking someone will do some awesome concept drawings for Chemical Plant or Aquatic Ruin, but I just haven't seen any aside from a couple bits here and there and those really old drawings from around when this project first started. I'd love it if a ton of different concepts would crop up so we could take bits from one that we like and add it to another and just put everything together so it works.
     
  4. MaximusDM

    MaximusDM

    Sonic 2HD - Concept Artist Member
    I agree with everything. There needs to be more organization like there was earlier on. It seems like no one knows who is working on what and if they are actually working on anything. I feel like I am the only showing artwork recently and all its done is create a flame war. What motivated me to doing artwork is looking at other peoples artwork and have that group effort feel. When no one else is doing anything I figure why should I? Since I last posted my Chemical Plant thing there really wasn't a response to anything relevant so since then I haven't worked on anything.

    Its a lack of motivation, not a lack of will. And when progress isn't updated it makes it look like no progress was made at all.
     
  5. Tweaker

    Tweaker

    Misfit
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    <!--quoteo(post=400597:date=Jan 25 2010, 10:35 PM:name=MaximusDM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaximusDM @ Jan 25 2010, 10:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=400597">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its a lack of motivation, not a lack of will. And when progress isn't updated it makes it look like no progress was made at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Exactly. This principle has applied to more or less every group project I've been involved in, and it's true—people are motivated by progress; conversely, people are put off by a lack of progress. It's for this reason that it's pertinent to post updates as frequently as possible so that everybody can at least see it.

    I understand the frustration behind the debates over whether or not a certain kind of material is "appropriate" for the project, but at the very least you could post it and just ignore any suggestions people make. It's a shitty thing to say, honestly, but at least arguing amongst ourselves would keep us busy and keep enthusiasm and support for the project alive and well. And it's kind of what you've been doing anyway, so I suppose it isn't too big of a deviation. =P

    Seriously, though! Help encourage people to get involved and all this time you'd be spending in the shadows perking things up would be better spent with people collaborating to actually get things done.
     
  6. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

    S2HD Project Manager Member
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    Thanks for bringing this up guys.

    I'm taking steps to bring more of what the staff is aware of to community knowledge. There are certain things we're not going to immediately reveal because, as Gambit said, there are a number of surprises that are fairly important. That said, there's quite a bit I feel you need to know.

    Expect to hear more as soon as the staff has come up with a better solution for you.

    In return, I'd like you all to take a look what we've been asking you for for months now. We need concepts. Badly. This project goes nowhere without them. These don't even need to conform to a certain art style since they're providing all of us with the inspiration necessary to move forward. I'll go and update the project goals accordingly to reflect this.
     
  7. MaximusDM

    MaximusDM

    Sonic 2HD - Concept Artist Member
    Like I said my motivation lies in what motivation others bring to the table. So I'm just kind of returning the favor in hoping that my stuff has inspired someone to push out artwork but all it seems to have done is create controversy. So that kind of has me bummed.

    I think the amount of pages there are is another put off for people. Its so unorganized with the first post having no update that people don't want to sift around 90+ pages to see what is actually finished or being worked on. I see lots of people lurk, but very few postings.

    I'm with Gambit I visit multiple times a day just to see if someone actually posted something. With such a dryspell with artwork I've been making posts critiquing music. I'm no talented musician so my say in the design and production of music is a bit flawed. But I voice my opinion anyway since I know no one else is. Because if someone takes the time to make something and gets no feedback on it then what the hell was the point (in the artists mind). While there may be 30+ lurkers totally psyched from his post but the artist will never know because no one posts anything.
     
  8. steveswede

    steveswede

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    Fighting against the Unitary State of Europe
    @MaximusDM

    I've always supported your concept art so keep them coming. It's very detailed and looks spot on. Just ignore the rants about it should be 2.5 game or we got to have rust on the pilers of Oil Ocean Zone. I will say that every piece of work I've seen you do looks like it's functional, meant to work and faithful to the original. I think when EHZ is done, your work is going to be extremely useful.
     
  9. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    You know, even if Maximus' art hasn't been approved because it's "concept art", it could just be used as a placeholder until somebody makes the "definitive version".

    That's "something" that has been done, and many people love it, so it would be a shame to just ignore it.
     
  10. Gambit

    Gambit

    Sonic 2 HD Staff - Level Artist Member
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    Alright, because this thing is just so much fun for everyone, I've decided to toss it up here and let you guys see if you can come up with any fun ideas. First thing y'all are gonna say is, "Hey, didn't that already get finished?" Yeah, it did, but it feels kinda lackluster now, so we're updating it. Now, I have a new stump and a general shape set up for this thing, but you don't necessarily have to follow either. I figured I would just put the main body shape I have up because I'm not sure how to shade it yet, and someone might have some ideas for that.

    The stump should remain about the size it is now (if you don't touch it you don't have to worry about it), but the main body of the bush cannot exceed the parameters I've set up with the guide lines, so make sure you turn those on if they aren't. I've got the old bush as well as the original sprite in the ai file.

    [​IMG]

    <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?cjjtzwmeymw" target="_blank">Get the Illustrator file here.</a>
     
  11. MaximusDM

    MaximusDM

    Sonic 2HD - Concept Artist Member
    I don't see that as an improvement over the other one. I don't have much to say about it since its still a WIP, but it isn't for me.
     
  12. Gambit

    Gambit

    Sonic 2 HD Staff - Level Artist Member
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    Yeah, that's really just something I was working on, but I've got school work and I can't figure out what to do with it next. Really, the bush just needs to be redone regardless of whether or not what I have on the previous page gets used. The biggest issue with the other bush is that the perspective is way off. In Sonic 1, 2, and I think 3 the horizontal axis is always straight across, it doesn't curve up or down at all, but the vertical axis does curve. This can be seen on the first boss' ball in Sonic 1.

    Here's the old bush just for quick reference.
    [​IMG]

    Here's the boss with the ball.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. MaximusDM

    MaximusDM

    Sonic 2HD - Concept Artist Member
    I thought that 3D looking bush was done with Illustrator's 3D tool which gives you settings as to how it looks. So it could be fixed that way, or actually rendered in 3D. The bush is pretty hard to interpret into HD because no one knows what was really supposed to be going on. Is it 3D? Is it 2D? Is it a bush with light showing through? Is it a semi-transparent bush?

    I liked the 3D interpretation one because it is like retro HD pixels. And the bush's "ears" give it a lot of character that I think would get lost if it was turned into actual leaves.
     
  14. Gambit

    Gambit

    Sonic 2 HD Staff - Level Artist Member
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    I was planning on adding "ears" to it, just haven't yet.
     
  15. LOst

    LOst

    Tech Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=402285:date=Jan 29 2010, 12:28 PM:name=Gambit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gambit @ Jan 29 2010, 12:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=402285">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The idea is to do something like this (see the checkered lines):
    [​IMG]

    To keep the original Sonic perspective rules where possible:
    [​IMG]

    In the end, when a 3D gradient brush has been added, the bush will look as 3D as before, only it will follow the original perspective design on Sonic.

    Gambit's test bush needs more equal sized checkered squares, but needs to get smaller at the sides. Right now I see random sized transparent squares and it doesn't look professional.
     
  16. test-object

    test-object

    By Torm, no! This is terrible! I... I had no idea Member
    I believe in two things — discipline and the Bible. Here you'll receive both. Put your trust in the Lord. Your ass belongs to me. Welcome to Hill Top.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Gambit

    Gambit

    Sonic 2 HD Staff - Level Artist Member
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    Looks good. I'm guessing you used some 3-D on it since it kinda looks like you've got some ambient occlusion going on, it's also a bit grainy in a couple spots so turning up the render settings could fix that. Really, the only things that I don't care for are the green thing and the metal stand. The metal could be shaded better, and I just think there could be something more interesting done with the green disk.
     
  18. LOst

    LOst

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    <!--quoteo(post=403492:date=Jan 31 2010, 11:57 PM:name=test-object)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (test-object @ Jan 31 2010, 11:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=403492">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I believe in two things — discipline and the Bible. Here you'll receive both. Put your trust in the Lord. Your ass belongs to me. Welcome to Hill Top.

    [​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Your red guy there is a good start as it keeps a good perspective and I can see alot of S2 in the design! I find that the one guy who makes the best red guy in the uber shading style set by Vincent's Sonic sprites, that can get it to look as evil and cool as the original sprite, will win alot. This is because the red guy is used by so many badniks in HTZ (3), all badniks must be adopted to that key design.

    The seesaw can be divided into two pieces. The front piece is metal pole with the green shaded holder. The back piece is the seesaw board, laying down flat (not rotated).

    How the seesaw will operate has not been decided by the programmer yet, and won't be until HTZ object programming is started.

    Good job test-object! A good start! I say the metal pole really needs to look like the pole already defined in the end sign.
     
  19. Hamneggs

    Hamneggs

    Official Breakfast of S2HD Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=403492:date=Jan 31 2010, 01:57 PM:name=test-object)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (test-object @ Jan 31 2010, 01:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=403492">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I believe in two things — discipline and the Bible. Here you'll receive both. Put your trust in the Lord. Your ass belongs to me. Welcome to Hill Top.

    [​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Hmm, in the original sprite, the post appears to be a bit mirrored. And with the disk, I believe you did fine replicating it, even adding a bit of flair. But that's the point. The original was just that boring. It was just a sphere in my opinion. Take it in the direction of the CNZ bumper, or make it back into a sphere, or better yet, add an axle or whatnot to it. Sorry about the long criticism. And the actual lever looks possibly more than perfect as of now.
     
  20. test-object

    test-object

    By Torm, no! This is terrible! I... I had no idea Member
    <!--quoteo(post=403515:date=Jan 31 2010, 10:08 PM:name=Gambit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gambit @ Jan 31 2010, 10:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=403515">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Looks good. I'm guessing you used some 3-D on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Nope, pure concentrated Photoshop.

    <!--quoteo(post=403528:date=Jan 31 2010, 10:43 PM:name=LOst)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LOst @ Jan 31 2010, 10:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=403528">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your red guy there is a good start as it keeps a good perspective and I can see alot of S2 in the design!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The badnik is not my work :P

    <!--quoteo(post=403656:date=Feb 1 2010, 03:35 AM:name=Hamneggs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hamneggs @ Feb 1 2010, 03:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=403656">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm, in the original sprite, the post appears to be a bit mirrored. And with the disk, I believe you did fine replicating it, even adding a bit of flair. But that's the point. The original was just that boring.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I know, it's both a joy and a curse to be given this much freedom.

    EDIT: A little experiment.
    [​IMG]
     
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