Leftover data in S3C 0408 ROM padding

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Chainspike, Feb 4, 2020.

  1. Chainspike

    Chainspike

    Stealing rings since 1994 Member
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    The Sonic 3C 0408 prototype appears to have data from older S3C builds leftover in the padding area. I haven't searched through this very well as there is quite a bit of data here and my methods are lacking, but I was able to stumble across a couple interesting finds. It's surprising that no one has really seemed to go through any of this as this prototype has been available since 2008. A particular reason for interest here is the nearly 5 month development gap between retail Sonic 3 and 0408 that we know very little about.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    On the left is an earlier version of the Death Egg sprite seen at the end of LRZ2. It's using the colors of the enemy palette line ($01) and the shading differs in areas. The final sprite is on the right for comparison and is rendered on the same palette line as the rest of the level graphics. It is also shaded a little differently. I did my best to reconstruct the early sprite as well as possible.

    [​IMG]
    Next, we have an earlier design for the Eggrobo badnik, which I thought was exclusive to an older build, but is actually used regularly in S3C 0408. I've never seen this documented anywhere. Notable differences here compared to the final include the eye, and the position/length of the arm.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there is more to look through. Other things I found odd were a version of the Red Eye miniboss graphics that seem to be grouped with the DEZ Act 2 boss, along with smaller art set for Mecha Sonic. The leftover data in the ROM appears to start at 0x80000 and user Jorge Nuno listed some rough offsets on the HP discord server:
    Keep in mind there is more than what is listed here. I apologize if this topic belongs somewhere else.
     
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  2. Master Emerald

    Master Emerald

    A green crystal Member
    These are supposed to spell Mushroom Hill, Sandopolis, Lava Reef, Sky Sanctuary, Death Egg and The Doomsday, but there are some letters missing o.o
     
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  3. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Have no fear...Amy Rose is here! Tech Member
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    Those are for the title cards, they contain every unique letter in the level's name, minus E, N, O, and Z, which are always loaded for the "ZONE" text.
     
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  4. IMO, with all these Sonic 3 prototype discoveries in just the last two months, we need a new version of Sonic 3 Delta that implements all the beta elements we've found.
     
  5. Prototype

    Prototype

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    I don't know how this stuff got missed the first time around, but tidy sleuthing, Chainspike! I definitely wouldn't have noticed the slight differences in Death Egg tiles.
     
  6. Metalwario64

    Metalwario64

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    Why in the world did they change that Death Egg background graphic from act 2? The earlier version was consistent with the way it looks at the beginning of the boss section right afterward.
     
  7. Chainspike

    Chainspike

    Stealing rings since 1994 Member
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    They probably changed it so that they could do this:
    [​IMG]
    Notice the cycling color palettes that (presumably) wouldn't have been possible by using the other palette line. However like you mentioned, this introduces an inconsistency with the boss act.

    You're in luck:
    [​IMG]
     
  8. SyntaxTsu

    SyntaxTsu

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    Any similar discoveries to be made in S3C 517 prototype and the closely related S&K 525 prototype? I’m thinking there could be some data located in there that may end up being unique to it, possibly even providing even further insight to the S3C Dev cycle...

    On a different note, how is that new Sonic 3 Delta coming along?
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
  9. Chainspike

    Chainspike

    Stealing rings since 1994 Member
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    S3C 0517 has leftover data in the padding as well. Considering it is a month later than 0408, there likely won't be anything pre-0408 to be found here, although it is still worth a look. As we've seen before, it is always possible for earlier data to show up.

    Regarding the new Sonic 3 Delta:
    Currently, I've named it Sonic 3C Delta to distinguish it from Esrael's old hack. This name is of course, temporary at the moment and it can always be changed later on. The hack will be somewhat based on a hypothetical build of Sonic 3C, utilizing leftover data that was found as well as taking inspiration from concept art. Implemented prototype features will also be finished (Flying Battery and Lava Reef for example). I'll probably make a hack thread in the coming weeks and release a demo.
     
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  10. Master Emerald

    Master Emerald

    A green crystal Member
    Couldn't they use animated tiles just for that?
     
  11. Chainspike

    Chainspike

    Stealing rings since 1994 Member
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    Since the Death Egg is actually a sprite here, I imagine that they would have had to create many different individual sprite frames. Maybe they just thought it looked better like this.
     
  12. Chainspike

    Chainspike

    Stealing rings since 1994 Member
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    Well, no surprise, there was more to be found hidden inside S3C 0408's leftover data, and it's pretty interesting. S3C 0408 seems to contain leftovers from at least two older builds.

    Located at $AFB68 there is Misc Nemesis art for Sandopolis Zone that contains an earlier version of the cascading pulley object:
    [​IMG]
    The hoist wheel has an almost entirely different design and the shading on the cable itself is less complex.

    At $B2C46 there is early Misc Nemesis art for Sky Sanctuary Zone, which features an earlier design for the collapsing platforms:
    [​IMG]
    These platforms are quite different in appearance, and are more consistent with the look of the floating platforms than the ones used in the final.

    Then, there's a data select icon set for the S&K zones located at $23A3DE, which was found in the leftover data, but also exists in the normal ROM area. The S&K zones weren't implemented in the data select menu until S&K 0525. Upon closer inspection however, this is actually an earlier icon set that contains some differences! Flying Battery is still using its original icon from Sonic 3, Hidden Palace is missing entirely, and older versions of Lava Reef and Death Egg can be seen:
    [​IMG]
    None of the palettes were recoverable, so these are using the same palettes as the final.

    Additionally, Jorge found an earlier rendition of Flying Battery's magnetic pendulum object at $AE31A that has a different base design. Like the S&K data select zone icons, these graphics did exist outside of the leftover data, but were impossible to see normally:
    [​IMG]
    It's amazing that there are still things to be uncovered in this prototype, despite how long ago it was discovered.
     
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  13. BSonirachi

    BSonirachi

    Opa-Opa takes flight! Wiki Sysop
    Oh wow!

    For documentation purposes on this page, could you post all of the S&K Data Select icons that exist in the normal and leftover data? Even if some of them may be the same as the final, covering as much unused stuff as possible is always good.