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Knuckles' Chaotix... ugh

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Skeledroid, Apr 7, 2010.

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  1. qiuu

    qiuu

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    I'd like to give props to the original developers for actually daring to be experimental and introducing the rubber band. Experimental gameplay tends to yield games with both avid lovers and haters, and this case seems to be no different. Some (including me) love it, others hate it.
    It seems to be the only way to get a working two-player mode on a single screen in a Sonic-like game. I've never seen any point whatsoever in e.g. this "feature" of Tails following Sonic, and don't get why people are so excited about it. Gameplay-wise, it adds nothing (save for a very few instances like boss fights perhaps).

    Those who have problems with the physics should give it a chance. It took me 2-3 hours to actually get the hang of it, and I know a major mistake I made was using the features of Knuckles I was used to, namely spin dashing and gliding. It'd have been better if these were not present, or at least to have a feature-less character for starters, to force the player to get used to the rubber band physics instead of working against them, getting around them whenever possible.
    I think the first step to mastering the physics is not using the character-specific features, and only making use of them again once you grew fond of the essential rubber band physics.

    Despite the 5 levels in each zone play very similar for most part, I still find them very fun (except for Amazing Arena, though perhaps there are still some tricks with the physics I have yet to discover that make this level more enjoyable), because they are tailor-made for the physics which allow for interesting gameplay. I do agree though in that there might have been even more potential with the level design, exploring more aspects of the physics and allowing for more variety.
    And yeah, it'd have been nice if in the real 2P mode, you'd not have to stand still to hold. Perhaps something to hack in...
     
  2. Mercury

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    First let's get this out of the way: In terms of art design, soundtrack, characters, and overall zany vibe, Chaotix is absolutely beautiful. It's the only game to even get close to recapturing the style of Sonic CD (my personal favourite).

    Where it falls flat is the gameplay, and not just because the physics are bad and the layouts are bland.

    But because it's fundamentally flawed, in its core concept.

    Now, IMO, the point of playing Sonic games is what could almost be called the "power trip". All video games are about role playing to some degree, but Sonic lets you step into the shoes of a character who can traverse the environment with an exceptional ease that totally demolished every other sidescroller from the era.

    Yuji Naka, who had cut his teeth porting other sidescrolling games to Sega systems, wanted to make a platform game that let the player move fast, and fluidly. That gave the player the same sensation that he got when he drove his sports cars. From the behaviour of the platforms, to the curved environments, to the fact that the player can defeat enemies just by passing through them, Sonic is based on what the community sometimes calls "flow". Nothing about the game is finicky, unfair, or plodding. Even the maligned Labyrinth Zone feels freeing compared to the straightjacket of platformers like Mario, or Ghouls & Ghosts.

    I think that this is paramount to the enjoyment of Sonic - to my enjoyment, certainly. I didn't get out much as a kid, and being able to run and jump and roll through fantastic locations was the greatest form of escapism. I've come to elevate this aspect to the central tenet of my own Sonic fangame, which I'm calling "Sonic Freedom" for this very reason.

    Chaotix destroys this freedom. What's more, it does so deliberately. Like Sonic Labyrinth, its very existence is predicated on removing the player's freedom. "Shackles" Chaotix would be an apt title. They intentionally limit the player's influence at every turn - from the random zone order, to the Combi Catcher character select, to the burdensome Heavy and Bomb.

    Now, there is a interesting moral lesson in Chaotix. The deeper meaning seems to be that, while the characters are fettered, they can work together, find new powers through the imaginative use of their bonds, and ultimately prevail.

    However, a 9-year-old kid doesn't care about that. They just want to play Sonic, and be free.

    So, in a nutshell, Sonic is all about making you feel like an awesome superhero. Chaotix, on the otherhand, is all about making you feel like you've got a disability.

    There's a reason, for all its pizzazz, it failed. Because it wasn't a good idea.

    (Alright, I suppose if the physics had been easier to immediately grasp by the average player, like Sonic 1's were, it probably could have worked. But for me, and I'm assuming most people, it's a tedious chore to even walk in a straight line in Chaotix, even after over a decade of practice. Progress in the game ends up being more random than anything else; hence the name Chaotix, I suppose.)
     
  3. Kurosan

    Kurosan

    Samurai of Gaming Oldbie
    I think that very line may be the best way to sum up how I feel about the gameplay. It's like Sonic, but a gimped Sonic; you try to be fast and agile, but you're always held back one way or another, be it because of the very concept of the bond itself or because of the maze-like stages. It's been said a few times before, but I simply have to echo that statement: The graphics and the music, just about everything is really nice (and I love the special stages, too), but it tends to be kind of... well, unfun. Even when you try to enjoy the game, it feels like you have to cope with too much.
     
  4. Sploit

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    Looks like this game is either loved or hated...not much inbetween.

    I love it its my favourite Sonic Spin-Off and pretty much one of my all time favourite Sonic themed games, partly due to its quirkyness and innovation, and the gameplay is unique within the series.

    Also...Knuckles is my favourite character from the Sonic series and Mighty is one of my second favourites...needless to say I always play this game as those two.

    I'll echo other peoples sentiments that the game has great music and the bonus/special stages are really fun. However, I don't find the levels boring and I really like playing through the game...I also find the art to be awesome.

    Playing this game as a 2 player game is also a really fun experience.
     
  5. amphobius

    amphobius

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    I love playing this game, and more-so with my brother.



    Shit is fun

    (My brother as Player 1, me as Player 2)
     
  6. This game with a second player is probably one of the greatest Sonic games period. If it hadn't of had the Combi-ring gimmick I'm sure it would've sold a little better, (and I DO mean a little) but then what would distinguish it from Sonic 1, 2, and 3 other than extra characters?
     
  7. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    well, aside from that whole "being the only sonic game on the add-on" and that "great art-work" stuff, why exactly does it need to distinguish itself from the established Sonic series?
     
  8. Yeah, I guess you do have a point...
     
  9. Chaos Knux

    Chaos Knux

    Stable avatar temporary. Randomizer site down. Banned
    Good game... just too fucking repetitive.
     
  10. Overlord

    Overlord

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    My biggest problem with Chaotix is that due to the fundemental flakeyness that is the 32X hardware, the damn game tends to crash on me every time I play it, and it's always JUST before it would get to a point where the cartridge would save.

    Fucking 32X. >_>
     
  11. Sploit

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    Could that not be a problem with your actual 32X or your cartridge? Just...thats never happened to me.

    Then again...having said that I've only had my 32X around 4 years and the cartridge around 2 (touch wood/fingers crossed it never happens to me). The 32X was a bargain at £35 :D (odd story was on a day trip with college and during a lunch hour I walked past local gamestation and just saw it there and siezed my chance, first time I'd ever seen one :D...had base unit, power supply, necessary lead to connect to Megadrive II and manual and box...no metal plates, though their necessity is questionable to say the least) Chaotix I bought of some dude when I was in uni...it cost like £40...but has booklet and box...and since then its gone up...so in retrospect I got a bargain :v:
     
  12. Overlord

    Overlord

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    Oh, I know it's a problem with the 32X - my other cart is flakey as well. It works, it's just EXTREMELY finicky.

    Anyway, this is beginning to drift =P
     
  13. Cooljerk

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    I got my 32X the christmas it came out. MAN What a disappointing christmas that was in retrospect. I got a 32X, Virtua Racing Deluxe, and clayfighters for the genesis. Now, VR:D is one of the best 32X games, true, but my parents passed up Doom because I had the shareware version, and Star Wars Arcade because the dude at the store said it wasn't very good. Oh, and my 32X also didn't work. I had to wait a full day before I could go to best buy and get one that did work.

    Don't get me wrong, I was extremely grateful. Thats like $500 in christmas gifts. But it didn't feel like a $500 christmas.

    That said, I played the shit out of every 32X game as they came out, which was a slow trickle. I got Knuckles Chaotix on launch day, and god all mighty I was disappointed. I'm guessing it's a product of hype for me - I remember salivating over it, really wanting it badly. I was jonesing for a new sonic game like a crack fiend, and all the magazine previews promised me it'd blow Sonic & Knuckles away. Well it didn't.

    I might have a different opinion if I'd played it for the first time recently, after hearing for decades about how lame it was, but nope - I played it on day one with hype surrounding it like it was Sonic 4. What a huge disappointment.

    To finish my 32X story - I eventually got the good games for the system. You know, NBA Jam: TE, Afturburner, Space Harrier, Virtua Fighter, but not till way after the system died.
     
  14. Tailikku

    Tailikku

    South Islander Pending Member
    I actually enjoy Chaotix, even to the point where I played through the entire hack as Sonic and Knuckles.
     
  15. Andlabs

    Andlabs

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    Do you remember exactly what day that was? That is, assuming you have lived in America that time; we only know that it was sometime in March 1995.
     
  16. Cooljerk

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    No clue the exact day, but I had it preordered and picked it up after school.
     
  17. Monochrome

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    Chaotix was okay. It had just as many bad features as redeeming ones. Ideally, you should be able to choose between three modes: 1P, 1P Co-op and 2P Co-op. The co-ops would be like it is now, and 1P would have extra lives instead of partner changing monitors, etc.

    I quite enjoyed Amazing Arena tbh; it was the colours for the time periods that captivated me- but I always found the orange/purple evening colours to be sickly. Speed Slider has too many places where two paths converge head-on and it's not clear where you go (though it's usually up), and, something that piqued my OCD, if it's a rollercoaster, why are there carousels on it? Techno Tower- just use Charmy and 99% of the time you won't have to mess about with the actual platforming. Whether you do this or not- the platforming of TT is awful.

    And what's the story with those minus rings?! What purpose do they serve? Just disallow calling when you have >10 rings!

    Why didn't they just put another character in the 2nd slot instead of the so-called Wechnia? Why not just use Tails, or have someone relating to Tails' backstory, and work that into the story?

    :words: :words: :words:
     
  18. Did anyone ever find out why Sonic & Tails were taken out of the game? I mean, SEGA owns the characters, and I'm sure KC was made by some sub-division of Sonic Team if not Sonic Team itself, so what made them get rid of them for the game?
     
  19. I picked it up a few weeks after it came out. Got the 32X on the Christmas of that year's launch, despite never having heard of the add-on. Which says something about the advertising.
     
  20. Overlord

    Overlord

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    I think there was a lot of interest at the time for the concept of Knuckles as a starring character, much like Shadow was later on, so they gave him his own game on a minority platform with the double bonus that if the system crashed and burned badly Sonic himself could emerge unscathed on the Saturn a year or so later - of course thanks to the Xtreme fiasco shit didn't QUITE go down as planned =P
     
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