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KingK's 40-minute review of Shadow the Hedgehog

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Taylor, Sep 27, 2022.

  1. Taylor

    Taylor

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    I found the video interesting because the creator has mixed feelings on the game, so he sets it up like a "Choose Your Adventure" deal to work through his feelings about it.

    Neutral - The game has an interesting premise but is weighed down by how schizophrenic it feels. Shadow will go from one place to the next at complete random, and his characterization almost never makes sense (eg on the Hero routes he'll still act like a smug asshole)

    Dark - The game is horribly repetitive to 100% and some missions are really awful, forcing you to tediously find and kill everyone. The Sonic characters are turned into soulless puppets in order to support Shadow's freedom of choice. The bosses are braindead easy.

    Hero - The music is amazing. A couple of levels are cool. The game gives you the thrilling power fantasy of killing cops.

    Last Story - GUN being made into good guys makes SA2 feel pointless, but damn, it's cool seeing Shadow being a good guy. Too bad Shadow isn't really used anymore.

    I can't help but be amused that there's far more bad points than good about the game, but the creator is hesitant to outright call it bad because they think Shadow is just that cool. Goes to show just how important style and aesthetic is for Sonic.
     
  2. Kyro

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    Been a big fan of KingK for a while now, his retrospectives and pieces on games he likes are always super in depth and really insightful into touching on both the qualities that make some games super appealing and great as well as those blemishes that just hold them back, and he does a great job at emphasizing those details on personal levels

    This video too was great, even if I personally think the game is hot trash, I can relate to the things he does find appealing. I always like hearing the takes of someone who can find things to like in something I dislike, and vice versa
     
  3. I watched this last night. More or less my own feelings.

    The game is hot trash, but I love Shadow too much to really say that I hate it.
     
  4. Starduster

    Starduster

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    I feel like this kind of misses the point of what he’s saying. Like he says at some point in the video that you can call it nostalgia or whatever but that’s not going to change how he feels about the game. Sure, the game has more than its fair share of flaws and he acknowledges those but he’s still able to have fun with it and feels that, at its best, the game does justice to Shadow’s character, and I don’t think that’s a trivial thing.

    And honestly, while I don’t have a soft spot for ShtH, I get where he’s coming from. With games like Shadow and 06, the criticisms have been well worn at this point. That doesn’t diminish them in the slightest but there’s value in holding onto what’s good about these games, no matter what that may be.
     
  5. How you feel about this game and 06 depends mostly on how you feel about the mid 2000 Sonic games in general.

    And Shadow along with 06 are essentially the peak of that era, for better or worse. I do agree that even if the criticisms of these games are justified, I don't feel there's anything wrong with finding some good in them, small as it may be.
     
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  6. charcoal

    charcoal

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    This was a pretty good video. I liked how he went over the positive aspects of the game and the choose your own adventure aspect was creative.

    The guy who made the video, KingK, has a really nice voice though.. I really liked the video for that alone to be honest, lol.
     
  7. One thing I feel Shadow's game does that literally nobody ever acknowledges at all is that it kind of fixes an issue I had with his sacrifice in Sonic Adventure 2.

    Namely, he only did it because that's what Maria wanted him to do. He was perfectly fine letting the Ark drop when he thought that's what she wanted and only changed his mind when he remembered the full context of Maria's words. People get so caught up in the spectacle but that never sat right with me and I think someone at Sega understood that.


    This game reframes it as Shadow deciding for himself to be a hero. Not because of Maria, or for Sonic and his friends, but for himself. It makes for a much more solid conclusion for the character while leaving him open for future appearances.

    The fact they continously fuck up using him is besides the point lol.
     
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  8. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    Peak in terms of what, budget? I find it hard to believe anyone could unironically find those two to be the peak of anything quality wise.
     
  9. Yes. People can in fact like games that you may not like. Shocking concept I know, people having a differing opinion and all, but it happens, a lot in fact. It's going to happen again in the future too, because ya know, we have these things called personalities and preferences and all.


    I'm sorry if I sound condescending here, but every time someone expresses surprise at someone liking a thing that they don't like, I can't really help but be bewildered by it. Yes, people do in fact like Shadow and 06...because every game has some follow in some shape or form.
     
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  10. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    I’m not saying you aren’t entitled to like them or that there’s no enjoyment to be had there. If you were able to get enjoyment out of those games and Forces then more power to you! I’m glad they’re finally finding a generation that accepts them the way I fondly looks back on stuff like Sonic Drift and Sonic Shuffle.

    I was responding to you stating that they’re the peak of that era matter of factly. If I told you something like “love it or hate it, we all know Rise of Lyric is peak 2010s Sonic” you’d probably wonder who/what made me state that with so much confidence. It’s not that you’re objectively wrong or anything, it’s just a bizarre sentiment. The peaks for most fans I grew up with / posted with in those times were generally seen to be stuff like the Advance+Rush games and debatably Sonic Battle (though maybe its mostly just me who holds that in such high esteem)
     
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  11. Starduster

    Starduster

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    I kind of agree that they're the peak of that era in terms of most strongly embodying the hallmarks associated with that era, for better or worse (mostly worse). They of course delve in further into the plot elements set up in Adventure 2, 06 in particular is janky as all hell, they emphasise a form of player freedom and multiple narratives and so forth.
     
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  12. BlueSkiesAM2

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    Like Starduster said, they’re the “peak” of possessing the characteristics we associate with that era of Sonic. Edgy tone, serious plots, abundance of gameplay styles (though not really in Shadow), a focus on forces external to the main cast, etc., etc… So whether that makes them horrible or great is up to preference.

    I’m surprised Sonic5993 didn’t clarify that in his response, because talking about how people like the games just makes it more unclear lol.
     
  13. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    Y’know, when you put it that way it makes a lot more sense to me. Thanks.
     
  14. sulphurmarketing

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    I spent my afternoon watching this video yesterday. KingK is still one of the very few great YouTubers I follow these days. He just kind of holds the same opinion as me: that Shadow the Hedgehog is a bad game that tainted Shadow as a character and brought down the franchise. While there are some minor points throughout the 40-minute video that I disagree with—such as the music being really good in some stages, or how Shadow controls as a character at times—I largely hold the same views as him. It's a game that can shine through at some points but it only takes Shadow being forced into a vehicle, picking up a firearm, or platforming off a pit to show how truly bad this game is. I also dislike how the game retconned Sonic Adventure 2's Ark backstory, was the first mainline game to switch the voice cast, and many other things I can't be bothered to remember.
     
  15. The way it was weirded made me think it was surprise at people praising them, so its my fault for not understanding.

    @Hitlersaurus Christ I'm sorry if I muddled the waters a bit there. But yea, they're "peak" in the sense that they embody all of the elements of that era of Sonic, for better or worse. In terms of design, presentation, etc etc.
     
  16. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    No worries, I just misinterpreted! Disregard my reply
     
  17. I liked this video! I haven't played the game for more than an hour — only via choppy emulation — but even just based on that flawed first impression, I thought the game was clearly a lot more fun than I was expecting.
     
  18. Laura

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    Honestly I interpret SA2's revelation very differently than that. She crucially tells Shadow that whatever reason he was made she believes his true purpose is to make people happy.

    This memory makes Shadow realise someone believed in his ability to do good despite his origins. Shadow's perception of Maria changes from someone who encouraged his bad character to someone who would now believe in him to do better. It causes a complete change in his character in the sense that honouring Maria's memory isn't just honouring her literal words but to live his life to make people happy because she believed he could do so despite being created as a weapon. So really I think it has the same purpose in that Shadow realises for himself that he must be a good person.

    It's really the climax of his narrative trajectory. He's already reclaiming his humanity in his relationship with Rouge and when he remembers his past he finally realises he can be a hero.

    It's also very realistic. Often bad people will only make a change for the better once they realise that someone genuinely believes they can do so.
     
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  19. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    I welcomed the fact that this game played (more or less) like Adventure 2 instead of like Heroes, and playing stupid with both melee and ranged weapons had its charm because the game itself wasn't particularly challenging besides when dealing with bugs and collision issues. What killed this game for me the most was the absolute lack of interest I had in unlocking anything (why would I unlock armed vehicles and such if I had already beaten the levels and S-ranks gave nothing?). I beat last story, noticed how basic was unlocking the story for every route, and quit; you know, instead of making you beat the game a bazillion times, they could have registered what levels you had visited, what missions you had beaten and which cutscenes you had watched, and unlock automatically any route where you had everything already done.
     
  20. Starduster

    Starduster

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    I do wonder what an ideal version of Shadow’s stories would look like, streamlined to excuse contrived endings and adjusted to make his actions more cohesive and logical in terms of those last minute heel or face turns.