Johnny Gioeli suing Sega over Live & Learn

This is a super recent retcon from them due to their recent falling out. There are dozens and dozens of interviews with them over their 60 year history where they have said the exact opposite, here's one from as recently as 2014 where they claim that their bond is so close it's familial, that they consider themselves brothers: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...-john-oates-50-years-friendship-relationships

 

I agree with you, but my point stands. I don’t want to lose Crush40 on new projects. Shame things are the way they are.

 

What if it was to feed fan perception of their image?
Who knows. Maybe a bit of both.

 

Sega can afford to lose a few million in my honest opinion. Maybe Sega then actually gets their rights better sorted out with the music in their games after this. I don't think this will be end of Crush40 or Johnny's relationship with Sega either.

 

This made me think that imagine when the guys behind the Gotta Go Fast song find out it's now Sonic's official catchphrase and all the ways it has been used for.

 

I got a kick out of Sonic saying everybody loves it lol

 

Just watched the new movie and I'm pretty sure the credits mention Live And Learn is licensed courtesy of SEGA. I wouldn't doubt they own the mechanical rights to the master recording of the 2007 remaster but not the original 2001 one, or vice-versa. However, having worked at a record label, I don't buy this story at all. Wave Master/SEGA Music have re-released Live & Learn (2001) time and again on their CDs and digital streaming but they hadn't figured out their licensing contracts? And Gioeli owning the composition as opposed to the lyrics? Fishy waters.

 

Honestly, the thing with Crush 40 is that if for some strange reason Sega/Sonic Team did decide to not include them in projects anymore, would it actually matter? Jun Senoue would likely not suddenly bow out of his position at the company, Sega would likely still own all of the other stuff Senoue and Gioeli wrote, and Gioeli would likely just go on his way with his one or two other bands plus his solo career.

Not to mention, anyone remember the last time Crush 40 was officially in a game? Right, Team Sonic Racing, five years ago in 2019, with Green Light Ride. And before that? ...Anyone?

Sonic and the Black Knight. In 2009. No, Generations doesn't count. They technically had a "Crush 40" version of Free from Sonic Free Riders, but AFAIK that was album only and not in the actual game. Beyond that, they had several best-of albums that had a new track or two apiece between those two appearances, but that's it.

I love Crush 40 to death and back. I own all of their albums. But maybe it's time to let them go.

 

It would have a cultural impact. Lots of people are getting into Sonic right now because of the new movie...based off the game Live and Learn is from. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2's modern ports are bad enough as-is, and we've been clamoring for a better remaster for years now. Imagine how much it'd suck if they had to remove the song from that.

 

I echo the sentiment that it won't matter much outside the niche group of people. Like mentioned before Crush 40 have done under half dozen of songs for Sonic in the past decade. Even Senoue is no longer the Music Director of the Sonic project, with Ohtani being at the reigns for a long time now. I don't think this lawsuit is reason to be alarmed, Gioeli thinks he's owed money so be it, this is not a MJ or Naganuma situation.

 

I don't even really want Crush 40 back for new games - I wouldn't necessarily say no, but none of their songs after like 2003 hit the same highs as the Adventure era, and I'm generally not crazy about their remixes. With that said, they're a huge part of the Adventure series legacy and SEGA absolutely needs to find a solution that doesn't have them vaulting one of the franchise's most iconic and popular songs.

 

Personally, while I dislike the game its from, What I'm Made Of is one of my favorite Crush 40 songs and I like it more than Open Your Heart (which I also like). I also love their version of All Hail Shadow, much more than the Shadow 05 version. And I like that song from Team Sonic Racing, although admittedly not as much as the others.

 

Not exactly related, just adjacent but strangely enough Johnny has stated that he and Kellin Quinn are interested in making music for HiFi Rush 2 after the announcement that Tango Gameworks was now back in operation.

 

LET'S FREAKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

Oy Vey!

This one goes too deep, so hopefully Sega will pay up and move on. You can’t delete Live and Learn from the franchise. It would destroy it.

 

I find this very fishy too. Not that I want to "defend the billinaire business" or that I dont think Johnny deserves rightful payment for what he has done, he totally does. But I find this very fishy when Live and Learn has been always credited at SEGA, Johnny only has Lyrics credits. Also, Jun stated back in 2017 that they can't play Live and Learn without Sega's permission. Also the Polygon story who broke the news says Live and Learn has only been registered by Johnny at 2024, not earlier. Seems really fishy to me.
Here is a photo I took of my SA2 Cut's Unleashed CD booklet, it clearly states Johnny only done Lyrics. The rest is on Jun and SEGA's.

 

Booklet notes don't give the full picture but it's a start. What's important is who publishes the song and what the terms are. The only way to figure this out is through performance rights organisations and licensing credits, specially in movies or video games. And from my understanding, it's SEGA who owns the publishing to the song. Will look into this

 

A few pages back, I saw a lot of idiots on this thread blaming the artists when a licensing controversy occurs and shilling for the multibillion dollar multinational corporation that's too cheap to retain good artists as salaried staff, so let me shed some light on how artists scrape out a living:

Most video game musicians are not salaried employees of the company, and this is usually a choice by the company to save money and avoid committing to someone whose services they may only want for 1 project. These people don't get health insurance or 401k matching, and their income is not steady.

Not everything they produce is a success, but they don't want to sign away all their rights to something that might potentially make life-changing money for them. The company just wants a song for a video game, so they usually agree to just pay the artist a licensing fee for one-time use in a specific project. Compare this to Rockstar paying Guns N Roses or Hall and Oates a licensing fee to use their songs in GTA. Sega was too cheap to buy the music, so they just paid for a license to use it.

In another example, accomplished funk musician Rod Temperton wrote a lot of songs for the Off the Wall and Thriller albums that later charted in the top 10. He wrote the songs in collaboration with Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson, and consequently he has joint ownership in them. He's not only legally entitled to royalties from the record sales, but also a cut of any licensing agreement to use those songs in other works. This is why Thriller is not in the graveyard level in "Michael Jackson's Moonwalker": Sega was too cheap to pay Rod Temperton his cut for Thriller.

One way or another, somebody retains copyright on that work. I would much rather see the person who made it retain the copyright than some board room full of empty suits who are incapable of making a single thing that somebody else would enjoy.

 

So according to my research, most songs done by Crush 40 are published by SEGA under Wave Master First Music Publishing Department AND by Johnny Gioeli under Hinge Neck Publishing (his company).

However, through what I could find, Live and Learn is solely published by Wave Master. So either Johnny forgot to register the track under his name/company OR he's been retroactively registering them and, for some reason, SEGA won't budge on this one particular track.

 

This sure does look messy. I wonder how good a job his attorney did looking into this before agreeing to take on the suit.