Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by High Fidelity, Mar 1, 2020.
Honestly, I think the Sonic Runners render is one of my... favorites?
I love both designs and want them to stay, but have no interest in any more interaction between the two of them. It was good fun in Generations, but really unnecessary in Forces. The goofy "other dimension" bit certainly didn't help.
Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic should stay separated, in my opinion. Sega has been pushing the idea for around a decade, and it allows more people to enjoy Sonic. Classic Sonic can be appealing to those who prefer gameplay over story, and Modern Sonic can be appealing for those who would be interested in the reverse. Also, since both Sonic designs have appeared in the same game together more than once (Generations and Forces), Sega would have to retcon certain events and create official Modern designs for many characters who still don't have one, such as Mighty and Ray. If, instead of merging both into Modern, the designs are merged into Classic Sonic, Sega would still have to create new designs for characters like Shadow and Silver who don't have official Classic designs. As long as the designs don't cross over just for the sake of doing it instead of for story, Sega should keep Classic and Modern Sonic separated.
People keep mentioning Batman and TMNT, but I don't think they the are a good example of handling long running franchise. For me the constant cycle of reboots and reimaginations keeps me away from them. Why invest emotionally into a franchise when it will be rebooted within few years? It's the reason why I completely lost interest in Spider-Man despite loving it as a kid. It's also a reason why I like anime series more (but not Fate), they are usually adaptations with central core the same as manga, visual novel or light novel, alternative way on enjoying the same story instead of fragmenting the franchise. And when they end, they end.
Multiple timelines are something that turns me off from Zelda as well. Why invest emotionally into each timeline, when the next game will be in another timeline or just BotW-ed and timelines will be completely ignored?
The damage to Sonic is already done. The timeline split into multiple dimensions is already there. The only reason I tolerate it is because those two timelines interact with each other in Forces, so both are a part of the same narrative, just in different timespace. And I hope they will continue to be crossing over from time to time to not make the split pointless.
Sonic also had many iterations in comics and TV shows, but I can just keep focused on games which won't get hard reboot after 2-3 seasons. I liked Sonic X for being more of adaptation into different medium than being something completely separate and I LOVE IDW comics for being extended universe instead of yet another interpretation. Movie also works as EU prequel. Aside from those 3, I think each new reboot, version or reinterpretation is a mistake. I'd love to see multimedia EU for Sonic that has TV shows, comics, books etc., all canon or semi-canon but not required to enjoy games. I'd also like to see more relatively faithful adaptations for them to be launching point for new stories designed for their medium.
I gotta say I deem all of that as WAY too ambitious for the franchise nowadays.
SEGA & Sonic Team have already screwed up the gameverse more than enough.
Hence me believing the franchise should get a reboot, gathering all the best from the gameverse and work hard from there on.
I didn't even get to finish reading IDWverse's 1st arc, I simply lost interest on it. Well, nothing new, I never liked Sonic comics.
You not liking reboots and multiversal stuff, it's OK. I'm also not too hot for those, when not properly justified.
But in this case, I think it could work, if done well. And from there, take baby steps towards a bigger franchise again.
I absolutely am OK with one design if it is Classic Sonic. Otherwise I would not be OK with only modern sonic existing.
Sega should've never changed the character's appearance so radically. Modern Sonic just doesn't do anything for me in terms of design. Even as a kid when Adventure came out I didn't see the appeal and was confused.
All they really changed was his eye color, made his quills longer, gave him a slightly less round torso, slightly adjusted his proportions, added soles with treads to his shoes, and gave him a little more attitude. Very minor changes overall, tbh. What makes it look so different is really the art style they are using. When you draw Adventure/Modern Sonic in the Japanese Classic style, he doesn't look that different from the original Classic design.
Take these covers from Archie Sonic Archives, for example, which use a 'hybrid' design of sorts:
Man, that art is freakin' GORGEOUS, especially the second one. Making the green eyes more of a shade instead of a defined iris preserves what I love about the old design, but gives it that same appealing splash of color. It looks fantastic! No surprise given that I grew up with it, but Spaz has gotta be the definitive Sonic artist for me.
And I see where you're coming from. The lanky, noodly 2D art from Sonic Adventure was my first exposure to the redesigns, and it was a horrible first impression.
Like, ugh, I still hate this. The ridiculous proportions, the enormous, spongy shoes, the HAPPENIN' facial expressions, the preponderance of long, curvy spines going everywhere. It's just messy.
The actual in-game models in the Adventure games looked a LOT better. And because of my disdain for this style, I'm probably the only person in the entire world who prefers the cover of Sonic Adventure DX (with its 3D render) to the Dreamcast original.
Around the time we got to Advance and Mega Collection, the artwork started looking a lot less EXTREME and a lot more solid. If this had been my first impression of the redesigns, I think I'd have liked 'em a lot more.
The lankiness and attitude is something I adore about the Adventure Era artworks. I did grow up with them, so I might be biased (but who isn't on this forum? lol)
Still, I think this is the best Sonic game cover art ever. Period.
Advance is the only time we got a game with this artstyle in-game, and I still think this trilogy boasts the best sprites for the cast. The lack of frames is a bummer compared to Mania, however. I'd love a rerelease with improved animations.
Hah, yeah, we couldn't have more different preferences on this. For the most part, the SA2 art was an improvement... and then there's that picture. I've always thought SA2 on Dreamcast has the worst cover art of the whole series.
But I definitely get it. You know, I grew up with Greg Martin's mowhawked, buttfaced Sonic. I know intellectually that the Japanese art is way more appealing and on-model, but the US art will always be how I think of my favorite game ever, so of course I love it.
I will say, Sonic's posing on the Adventure 2 Battle art is one of the only 2D pieces of that era that I really like. It's cool and dynamic without feeling messy.
Yeah, nobody will ever convince me that this is "messy":
By the way, what do you think of this one? (and the concept art)
I personally think this SA1 art and the third concept drawing there are way better than the mid-2000s example you posted.
This just looks really weird to me. His head looks way too big and his pose looks very stiff. His body also got less round after SA1, which looks bad in my opinion.
Keep in mind that I also have always preferred classic Sonic, and to be honest, I found Uekawa's SA1 noodle art really weird when I was younger. But they have so much personality that they grew on me a lot. Those Sonic Archives covers are definitely all beautiful. I wish modern Sonic's style would take after that Volume 21 cover.
I personally find the green eyes the most jarring. It just doesnt look right to me at all and never has.
I know a lot of people share that opinion, but...I will literally never understand why. It's like the "Han Shot First" of the Sonic franchise. Except at least that complaint makes sense. You know what, scratch that, it's the "TRUKK NOT MUNKY" of the Sonic franchise. Sonic's eye color is such a tiny portion of his design that I don't get why people were such babies about it.
I never cared for the design change as much as I did for the gameplay change and cringy storylines that accompanied it. Do I prefer the classic design over the modern one? Of course I do, but had the games continued to be as good as S3K I doubt I would have given the redesign too much attention. For me the redesign just serves as visual indication of when things went to shit.
Calling people babies for saying "this looks stupid" is something I've never understood. When you look at someone, you look at their eyes. When Sonic's eyes were given green irises, it added a garish distraction to what was very simple previously. The eyes are very important because everyone will always be looking at them specifically, and making them bright green is out of place considering the rest of Sonic's palette.
People also say this sort of thing about blue arms complaints, just because of Chris-Chan. There's a reasonable character design argument on that one, but people still say "quit being a baby" about it. I'll never understand this. Just because some people literally whine about this stuff, it doesn't invalidate the same opinion held by more reasonable people.
Given that this is literally the first time in my life that I've heard an explanation beyond "It's not the way it was in my childhood, and is therefore bad", I don't feel the slightest bit bad about what I said. Even beyond disagreeing with it in general. The blue arms I can see being a problem because otherwise his arms blend into his body making them difficult to see, but the eyes...I have blue eyes, and there's no other blue anywhere on my body. Does that mean my eyes are out of place considering the rest of my "palette"? No.
You aren't cartoon blue hedgehog. The whites of your eyes don't make up half the surface area of your face, and your pupils/irises aren't the size of your ears. Sonic's eyes being green looks weird. Another reason could be because it creates the potential for 'seeing' his eyes as smaller than they are because his pupils are a lot smaller to account for the irises. Giving Sonic bright green irises is an unnecessary visual distraction.
When someone's explanation amounts to "it's not the way it was in my childhood," there's frequently something deeper that puts them off, and they just can't put their finger on it. Considering I grew up with both green eyes and black eyes, I don't mind the green that much, but I do think it looks weird.
I think being against green eyes or blue arms does not make sense.
We all have individual eye color and we all have arms that match the rest of our body...as do a lot of other cartoon characters including ones from this franchise.
How are either of these out of place on Sonic?
It's kinda hard to tell, but while green eyes can be seen as something to underline his character traits, actual hedgehogs do have tan arms. Makes perfect sense to me.
Ever since Forces, I've just assumed that (non-Movie, non-Boom, non-StC/Virgin books) Sonic is wearing a blue, sleeveless (and... tummyless) bodysuit.
Of course, that presents a problem in expanded fiction, since he seems to sleep in it, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Maybe he's just got one for every day of the week?
I guess Super Sonic kinda breaks this theory too. Aww heck.
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