don't click here

Is there any proof Tails was originally not meant to appear in SA2?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by charcoal, Nov 20, 2022.

  1. XCubed

    XCubed

    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    I thought it was weird, but considered it par for the course since Tails couldn’t originally fly in Sonic 2, despite seeing him do it automatically on the screen. I really was happy to see Rouge fly as a Tails clone in Heroes.
     
  2. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

    The Voice Maestro Member
    454
    377
    63
    Cyber City
    Mega Man Zero: The Definitive Dub
    While I agree with the idea that RH was originally a Sonic level, I do not think it was meant to be level 2. It is true that CE takes place at day and Big Foot takes place at night, but the aesthetics of the Big Foot boss line up with CE and decidedly not RH. Furthermore, it would absolutely kill the pacing if the player went through two levels and a boss before we see a flashback.

    Where I think RH was actually supposed to take place is where Mission Street is in the final game. Think about it: in the story, GUN spots Sonic, Amy, and Tails, and Sonic says he'll distract them while Tails gets away. That's basically what would happen if RH took place there. But apparently his distraction completely fails, since they chase after Tails anyway. Even Tails's mission briefing says "Evade enemy pursuit!" And let's not forget that MS has the same aesthetics as RH.
     
  3. Okay. Was finally rereading one of the other topics on SA2.
    https://forums.sonicretro.org/index...venture-2-pre-release-2001-05-03.31426/page-3
    And David the Lurker posted this back in 2013.
    https://web.archive.org/web/2002060...rg/news/display.cgi?mm=04&showall=1&yyyy=2000
    So Nails the Bat and the concept info did come from SegaDojo and the post was by WB on Sonic HQ. Next I'll keep looking for the original. Let alone DtL posted a scan of the magazine article for the submarine comment even back then. Which, all of Sonic HQ is actually still up in both the sites own archives and just easily findable through their search apparently.
    https://sonichq.net/article/news/the-rumor-mill-sa2-nails-the-bat-new-female-character/
    Which had an article talking more about Sega showing off more Demos at the time.
    https://sonichq.net/article/news/two-adventures-two-sonics-too-much-information/
    Then the HQ post about Resaurus references the Nails the bat rumor.
    https://sonichq.net/article/news/new-sa2-charcters-revealed/
    Also, in my notes where I had found the Submarine mention it was just a text copy of said magazine that some people were using a source more recently. https://archive.org/stream/Official...fficial_Sega_Dreamcast_7_SepOct_2000_djvu.txt
    And an early interview sort of deflecting the fact Sonic Team was being split very early in development.
    http://www.sonic-jam.org/aii1999:jul31
    And a leaked Tails image from April 7th 2001 preceded the wider media coming out a week later around April... 13th I think.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20010428235904/http://www.kedzie.net/3th/
    And the same month ODM UK talked about Tails not making the cut (November 2000), Swirlvision had an article apparently saying Tails would at least appear.
    https://sonichq.net/article/news/sonic-adventure-2-and-beyond-new-info/
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
  4. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    The internal file names are interesting but I don't think they necessarily prove that Shadow, Tails, and Rogue were never intended to be playable. And while the magazine preview can be used as proof the writer could also just be reporting their interpretation of the trailer as fact.

    As far as I'm concerned, there is no evidence Shadow, Rogue, and Tails were not intended to be playable. I really dislike subjective opinions of art being used as proof of authorship. It's everywhere. A key example is the Homeric Question. Homer didn't write the Telemachy because it doesn't fit. The first half was written by Homer and the second half not because it isn't as good. Etc. Terrible in my opinion. It isn't real analysis. Just using personal opinion to make outrageous claim..

    I think some of the arguments for SA2 fall into this trap. Tails' missions not effecting the plot isn't really evidence that he wasn't supposed to be playable. It's a matter of opinion how far many of the levels affect the plot. The ending of Metal Harbour makes no sense. City Escape to the boss makes little sense. Even the plot beats themselves make little sense. Shadow being mistaken for Sonic. Etc.

    And especially subjective is that Shadow, Rogue, and Tails having less and 'worse' levels, suggesting they were not intended to be in. I always interpreted Shadow having less levels because he was cool and new. Less levels for the cool new character, kind of like Knuckles in Sonic and Knuckles. It's entirely a matter of subjective opinion that Rogue and Tails have worse levels. I've always preferred Tails' Prison Escape to Eggman's for example.

    My opinion here is no better than yours. You could argue effectively that Shadow having less levels is rushed design. You could argue that Tails has worse levels than Eggman. I just don't think it proves at all the authorship of the game.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  5. JaxTH

    JaxTH

    Pudding Deity Oldbie
    9,973
    416
    63
    Los Angeles
    Jack shit.
    What?

    Knuckles only has two less levels than Sonic.
     
  6. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    Shadow only has two less levels than Sonic.
     
  7. big smile

    big smile

    Oldbie
    932
    85
    28
    Here is the (now dead) link for the video: https://www.twitch.tv/thesonicshow/b/323985629
    It was on the Sonic Show Twitch. It looks like they deleted their Twitch channel, so all the videos went.
     
  8. Hmm. Sonic Show still has an active YouTube it seems though. Could possibly just ask if the footage might still be around.