If Sega only cared about pandering to YOU, what kind of Sonic game would they make?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Josh, Dec 22, 2021.

  1. pkderbar

    pkderbar

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    Metroidvania-style Sonic with large interconnected 2D levels that require precise platforming / exploration to open up. Include Tails and Knuckles to unlock routes via their unique abilities. All 7 chaos emeralds are buried somewhere within the maze, and playing continues to unlock new shortcuts eventually bringing the entire map together.
     
  2. qwertysonic

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    creating the biggest sonic collection
    Even current Sonic Team couldn't mess this one up. Though Ohtani would probably try.
     
  3. big smile

    big smile

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    I so badly want a Sonic Mario Maker. I think the community understands Sonic better than Sonic Team do and it would be awesome to have an endlessly supply of well designed Sonic levels (Yeah, there's the fanmade Sonic Studio but that doesn't have the same mass market access).

    It should cover all eras of Sonic and even allow you to mix and match (so you can have boost Sonic in Classic levels, for example).

    They could have a talking heads creator so you could create your own story cutscenes (in the style of TSR or Sonic Battle, but obviously without voice overs).

    Maybe they could even do a collab with Mario Maker and let you switch mix and match Mario and Sonic characters and level assets.

    Sega, why don’t you do this? Having decent user levels would keep the brand strong with the inevitable official misfires. And there's so much potential for DLC and sequels.
     
  4. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    You can't. Report it to the mods with double-post as your reason.

    No idea why. Last time I saw the subject broached, one of the mods just said "for reasons that should be obvious", which...fucking no?
     
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  5. FollOw

    FollOw

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    I want 2 things.

    Sonic Mania 2 with all new levels. Just some good old 2d pixel art side scrolling levels please.

    A brand new 3D sonic game with the same controls as adventure 1 & 2. When I replay those games I feel Sonic and Shadows controls and their levels still hold up. This would be a great opportunity to get away from Boosting and levels that are just one large hallway. I'm hoping that maybe Sonic Frontiers can deliver in some way on this.
     
  6. I love this is just a poorly disguised "What is your dream Sonic game" topic :V

    I could just talk about what I want specifically, but that's boring and I've done that a million times. So instead, I'm gonna focus on trying to salvage a game; Sonic Forces.

    I'm gonna establish Sonic Forces main issues, for me at least, come down to:

    - Its uneven focus; its a game that is attempting to be a game that satisfies every type of Sonic fan, but failing on all fronts.
    - The gameplay being inherently inferior to its predecessors (Sonic Generations for Modern, and Sonic Mania for Classic)
    - Trying to establish a new villain in Infinite, while simultaneously marking Eggman finally taking over the world and both failing to be particularly interesting.
    - The main emotional arc of the game is centered on an custom-made character who is intentionally left a blank slate, as opposed to the supporting cast we've known for years.

    So my idea is to address all of that, not to make something that would be good or even something that would specifically appeal to me, but something that's just more cohesive and consistent. So to start off.

    + Just make Modern Sonic the main focus of this game; Classic already had Mania, there was no need for him to be here and dilute the attention. He was already treated like an afterthought to begin with, I can't imagine that Classic fans were satisfied with his use here given how he was in Mania.
    + Take what you established in Generations with Modern, and add some mechanics from Lost World into the mix. Maybe have Sonic only be able to boost when he's in a Parkour segment, and return the spin dash to him from Lost World.
    + Given that Episode Shadow is a prequel to the main game, just make that segment longer and properly establish Infinite as an enemy for Shadow. Maybe have Eggman and Infinite capture Shadow so that he can't reveal Infinite's power to him. Then in the main campaign, the focus shifts to Eggman's conquest and how that effects Sonic and Co. Later on, Shadow is freed and then its Sonic and Shadow against Eggman and Infinite for the finale.
    + Actually flesh out Tails` character arc of failing to help Sonic and have the other character support him during it while the Hedgehogs are out busting ass.

    That's just off the top of my head.
     
  7. That One Guy Josh

    That One Guy Josh

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    Honestly, I just want a Sonic Lost World sequel.
    - Save screen with up to 13 files
    - Control style based on Adventure games, but also being customizable
    - An actual story telling where the actual hell did the Deadly Six come from
    - Wearable outfits like in the Rivals games which give you certain effects, be they helpful or useless
    - An OST capturing the feel of the Adventure games
    - Unlockable characters, like Blaze, or Shadow, or... heck, throw in some forgotten characters.
    - Hyper forms (though somewhat nerfed)
    - Unlockable stages
    - Boss Rush mode
    - Collectable pictures similarly to KSA viewable through a gallery menu
    - Mini-games
    This might be too much, but... whatever floats your boat.
     
  8. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    This thread got me thinking about which Sonic game I'd love to see remade the most, and after putting some thought into it... I think it'd be Sonic Adventure 2. I'm not exactly a huge fan of the game but playing it recently I think there's a great game buried underneath a mountain of dumb little decisions that add up. The changes I'd make (aside from upgraded graphics and remastered music, which I'd already expect) would be:
    • Give the player the option to a single large campaign in addition to the Hero and Dark stories, to streamline the game so you don't have to watch the same cutscenes over and over again.
    • Improve the accuracy of Sonic and Shadow's homing attack and light speed dash. Also make their abilities flow a bit better; in fact, I'd alter the spin dash to work as it did in the classics. You crouch before spamming jump to build up speed, and crouching while running lets you roll.
    • Restore Knuckles and Rouge's emerald trackers so they're like the way they were in Sonic Adventure - they track all three emeralds at once. Also, add a minimap so that you actually know where the hell you are in the level.
    • I'd also make it so that the emerald locations aren't randomized anymore - the levels are so big that I think it's much more of a chore than fun to find them; locking them in one place would make the levels much more enjoyable. In fact, I think the original tracker/emerald behavior would be well-suited for a bonus "Hard Mode" or "Original Mode" so people who liked them before don't have to suffer them being changed.
    • Tweak the controls and level design in Tails and Eggman's mech stages so they're faster, easier to maneuver in, and less clunky. Hell, maybe even take Tails out of the mech - there's a mod that lets you use Tails' SA1 moveset in his levels, and it fits a lot more than you'd think. (Of course, that would require additional level design restructuring if you did it in every level.)
    • Make the rankings optional. I always found it pretty annoying to get through a tough stage only to be immediately given a grade that essentially says "lol fuck you, you suck". If you just want a score at the end of the level, you should be able to just see a score.
    • Remove Chao being a necessity to unlock Green Hill, since I know a good amount of people (myself included) who never bothered unlocking it normally because they didn't feel like grinding the Chao Garden for hours just to get it.
    • Unlock Super Sonic once you complete the story, a la Sonic Generations.
    • If the voice acting isn't redone entirely, at least fix the audio mixing. It's laughably bad and really sticks out these days.
     
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  9. Amen lol. That's why I tried to change it up, but alas, everyone ignored the attempt, and the Sonic Adventure 3s and Mania 2s keep coming in.
     
  10. A linear, no hub Sonic CD (visually) styled 3D game.

    No more Sonic in 'human' world. That goes for things like earth styled environments, trees etc.

    Music inspired by underground club culture & graphic design.

    Totally confident in being it's own thing, not trying to catch up with or ape mainstream gaming trends.

    Acid tinged abstract worlds and geometry.

    Proper physics based gameplay. Run, roll and jump.

    Strong environmental nature vs machine theme.

    Ditch the cheese.

    :P
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2021
  11. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    HF reminded me: no more 2 worlds crap. It's all Earth, sometimes they're in the parts where humans live, sometimes they're not.
     
  12. Myles_Zadok

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    Allow me to say that I'm a software developer, though I won't say where or of what.

    A delete button COULD technically be added. However, there are issues to consider when adding such a thing. I'm going to put this in a spoiler, if anyone cares to read this. I'd like to not derail the thread.

    • If a post is deleted by accident, should it be recoverable, or gone forever? Generally you don't want things to be permanently deleted, because, in short, if something important can be deleted forever, it probably will be deleted forever. There are a variety of reasons in favor of having some sort of record of posts, even deleted ones, but I'll leave you to think of those.
    • So then, how do we handle deletion if we don't want posts to be gone forever? Now, I haven't seen the back end code or database schema that support the site, but I imagine there's a table for forum posts. It probably has a column for the user who made the post, a column for what thread it is, etc. What could be done is to add a column that marks whether a post is deleted with a binary (0 or 1) number. This would allow posts to be deleted but still retained in the database.
    • There's a problem with that too, however. When adding a column to a table, you add that column to every record already in that table. You could make the deletion column nullable (able to hold a NULL, or empty value), but a nullable bit (binary) column is generally frowned upon. You want to only deal with 2 states, not 3.
    • Making the column non-nullable would only exacerbate the next issue. Everywhere forum posts are created/read/updated, each non-nullable column and relevant nullable column is dealt with. Now you have to go to all of those places and change that code. I imagine that's not a little change by any means, especially given that the site is in PHP (kudos to everyone who contributes to the site by writing PHP, I hate that language with a burning passion).
    • Not only do you have to change how creation/reading/updating of posts works, you also have to handle permissions. Who has permission to delete posts? Should anyone be allowed to delete posts? Should there be a time limit that starts once a post has been created that, after expiration, prevents users from deleting there own posts? All of this requires changes in the code as well.
    Long story short, adding a delete button to forum posts, while possible, is a much larger undertaking than it probably seems, for what I see as only marginal benefit.

    If anyone deems this to be wrong, feel free to correct me, but put it in a spoiler so we don't derail the thread, yeah?

    Really, I just want more 2D classic Sonic, preferable made by Evening Star. In response to Rhythm Racoon's question, They could make it like Sonic 1 on GBA. I won't use Sonic 4 for my punching bag, because I think it had some interesting ideas at the very least. It wasn't terrible, it just wasn't great, IMO.
     
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  13. Finally, someone answered lol.

    I'd throw my hat into the ring, but not only have I already pitched my ideal Sonic game, but typing it all again for the sake of explaining how it would get "Sonic Teamed" would just be too long lol. Ironically, I've been busy playing Sonic Boom Shattered Crystal, and I don't get all the hate- it's decent. So imma get back to that :]
     
  14. Wildcat

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    Well I honestly have not had much issue with how Sonic Team makes the games. My biggest complaint about the more recent ones are just not long or challenging enough. Not enough build up that makes beating them feel rewarding.

    I think Lost World was long/challenging enough. Colors, Generations and Forces were not imo. I’m talking about the main story and quest which I consider the most important above any extras.

    So if they made my Freedom Fighters game I’d be disappointed if was as short as Forces. That’s the closest thing so far in terms of story.

    Other than that I guess making Antoine escort missions. Haha.
     
  15. Since some folks here are itchin' for concepts with more of a unique bent to them than Sonic Mania Dream #11811 or Sonic Adventure 3 ver. 420, then I'll glady introduce another concept I've been fleshing out over the past few years. I never settled on a title for it, but came to refer to it as Sanic RPG for kicks. I initially envisioned it as a JRPG inspired by some of my favourites such as Final Fantasy IX, X/X-2, Grandia 2, Chrono Trigger and Cross, and the Hyperdimension Neptunia series. After scripting an outline of the plot, mapping the expansive overworld, casting the party members and establishing their roles and key abilities, and brainstorming some other features to implement, I ended up with a splintered view of the core concept. Should it be a JRPG or an SRPG?

    Time to back up a bit. The idea for this project first came to me while analyzing Hirokazu Yasuhara's maps and concepts for Sonic 2 and wondering what could have been. I latched onto the timetravel element and thought about how cool it would be to play a game that was essentialy Sonic 2 X Chrono Trigger. That'd be pretty neat, right? So I went ahead and outlined the progression of Sonic 2 across its several unique time periods, complete with boss encounters, special events, party member recruitment opportunities and any requirements to trigger them. I didn't stop there though, opting to go and outline chapters for Sonic 3K, Sonic 1 and SegaSonic through FFVIII-esque flashbacks, 3D Blast, Chaotix, and even a chapter devoted to an emerald collecting tournament inspired by Sonic the Fighters.

    I liked the progression and story beats of it all, but was struggling to make sense of combat. The abilities of badnks and bosses were fairly straightforward, as were those of the most of party, but this was still a Sonic game and seemed lacking an element of speed. So I pondered on this for a good while. Keep in mind that this concept has been developed on and off since like the summer prior to the release of Mania, and I wouldn't dare call it fully baked. So I pondered and eventually concluded that the battle mechanics of Final Fantasy Tactics or Hyper Devotion Noire could be a fine fit for Sonic. So battles would take place on a hexagonal grid, with faster characters capable of moving across the most spaces per turn while also having a shorter gap between turns. I have no idea if variable gaps between turns is a new concept or not, but I figured it would serve characters like Sonic and Metal Sonic well. They'd have fairly weak attacks to keep them from being too OP.

    Other characters include Tails who can take flight and then drop items, land, or dive down and attack, and can also sabotage or take control of machines. Knuckles is basically a monk. Amy has an array of hammer attacks and tarot cards. Fang has his guns of course, while Bean has his bombs, and Bark is a heavy bruiser. Espio is a stealthy saboteur. Vector is something of a tank who uses his DJing to taunt. Charmy is a cheerleader who buffs the party. Also included are Mighty, Ray, Honey, Big, Metal, and an Eggrobo.
     
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  16. I like it, but...

    Where's the Sonic?

    This feels too far divorced from the core of Sonic's appeal. Are you sure you're actually making a Sonic game? Or are you making an unrelated RPG with Sonic characters in it?

    Like really, I like what you have so far, but there's nothing traditional Sonic here to really hook me. I want to hear more, especially if it gives a fun spin on the tried and true Sonic gameplay we're all here for, but all this pitch comes across to me as is "classic Sonic but RPG". :V
     
  17. The Sonic is in the characters, abilities, music, and especially through the storylines and locations being adapted from the games. In a much earlier concept I considered directly lifting the zones and seamlessly arranging them in sequence, but with the SRPG elements I figure it would take on an isometric view like in 3D Blast.

    It expressly is a classic Sonic RPG though, and not a platformer. I abandoned the traditional JRPG approach to battles because I didn't think it did the characters justice. The core of the concept is a celebration of Sonic's world, with you progressing through every classic island to thwart eggman with your preferred team... assuming you meet the conditions to recruit everyone you want. I suppose some platforming elements could factor into traversing the overworld maps, while springs, spikes, power-up monitors, and other objects/obstacles would be included in the battle grids.

    I don't see how it could be seen as an unrelated RPG with Sonic characters in it unless you also viewed Paper Mario as just some RPG with Mario characters in it. This concept directly adapts each island and story beats from the game, although I didn't focus much on the story details aside from noting that the plot for the Sonic 2/West Side Island chapter is derived from its initial time travel concept, so that's on me for skimping on the details in the post. The Angel Island chapter is an adaptation of the Death Egg Saga, while the Mysterious Island chapter is Chaotix complete with Metal Sonic taking over Eggman's role as the big bad. The Flicky Island chapter explores the nature of the rings and Eggman's Panic Puppet factory that roboticizes flickies. The greatest deviations in my scripts are probably for Another Island and South Island, with the former being a flashback to Sonic's first encounter with Eggman and subsequent retreat alongside Mighty and Ray, while the latter is a flashback to Eggman's first defeat by Sonic.

    It isn't fully fleshed out, and has laid dormant for two years, but it's certainly the most unique concept I've had, or likely ever seen, for a Sonic game.
     
  18. Tooting your own horn? Jk jk jk lol, I do it with my own concept too lmao, it's cool.
    No? Paper Mario and the Mario and Luigi series are RPGs that feel like Mario games- especially because they take the core of Mario and put an RPG spin on it. Sonic Chronicles also did this (albeit very poorly). Your take however seems to be the inverse- an RPG with a Sonic spin. Maybe it's just me, but I read this pitch and my brain instinctively goes "RPG first, Sonic second", which in my book is a not very good thing lol, especially if you're trying to market this as a Sonic game. Sonic should be the forefront, not the afterthought.

    And that's not to say you actually plotted this out in that order- it's obvious you're trying to present traditional Sonic lore in an RPG format, which granted, I think could really work, don't get me wrong- but in trying to force a circle shaped concept into a triangle shaped hole, it's creating that "afterthought" feeling I can't seem to shake. You seem to mostly be focused on the story and the abilities and skills each character will provide, which yeah- are literally the hallmarks of a good RPG, but again, I ask, why would anyone besides diehard Sonic fans (for the story) or RPG nerds (meant kindly- for the gameplay) play this?

    Then you brought up the isometric overworld style from 3D Blast, and immediately my mind went racing with all sorts of fun ideas for a blend of RPG elements crossed with 3D Blast, Labyrinth, and SegaSonic's isometric gimmicks. There's so much potential there, and suddenly, you find yourself with a possible hook for this proposed game idea that will reel in old fans and newcomers alike.

    As was mentioned before, this is a thinly veiled "what's your dream Sonic game?" thread, and I get that, but something I rarely see anyone do is create a pitch for a dream game that can be enjoyed by other people too, and not just the person who conceptualized the idea. Like I said before, I'd either have to be a diehard Sonic nerd, or super into RPGs, neither of which I am (sorry, my love for Sonic isn't enough here), so based on your pitch alone, I'm not exactly sold on the concept.

    But that's okay. I know it, you know it, we all know it. You can't please everyone, yeah? My point is just that I'm trying to get behind your pitch for a Sonic RPG, and I'm not understanding how this is supposed to satisfy my desire for a Sonic experience. But I digress. It could easily all just be my own jaded-ass perspective on things stopping me from clicking with this lol. I still think it sounds like a great RPG. :D
     
  19. You've hit on the precise reason why I only ever shared this concept with a handful of friends before this thread: only fans of RPGs and Sonic would be likely to gravitate to a game like this. I don't see how Sonic can be seen as the afterthought here though, when my impetus for this was to figure out how to craft an RPG around Sonic. If it were RPG first, then I would've just modeled it after FFIX instead of trying to mix and match styles that actually suit how the characters operate while ensuring that Sonic's speed factored into combat in a way that wasn't simply getting to a command menu faster. Ultimately he does get there faster, while also dashing across the battle grid in a way nearly no one else can.
     
  20. ChaddyFantome

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    This seems like an oddly difficult question for me. I tend to like multiple things from the series so there isn't really any 1 particular game I would demand. Sure I have my favorites, but those faves tend to be spread across different periods. I guess what I want more than anything is to go back to when this idea that getting multiple Sonic games of different types was seen as anti-proportional to game quality (something that is demonstrably not the case)
    I'd like a new genesis styled Sonic game, a New Adventure game, a Heroes sequel, a new Sonic Advance styled 2D modern game, a new Riders sequel that builds on the first game, heck, I'd even like a new Sonic RPG as I felt the baseline of Chronicles was solid and just underdeveloped. I'd even love to see another attempt at a Sonic Battle and Sonic Shuffle Party game. Also, give some characters spinoffs dangit.

    I guess my answer is I'd want them to "pander to me" by just not drip-feeding us games, and for the stigma against games that aren't one super needlessly specific thing to be dropped entirely. Its a mentality that I feel is largely only self fulfilling because in an environment where the only Sonic game you get comes every half a decade, its easy for people to complain when the game isn't this specific thing they have been craving.