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If I were to reboot (Characters)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Mortimer, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    I don't really mind Amy having a temper in moderation, in fact I think it helps give her character and prevent her becoming too saccharine. For all people complain about her in Heroes I thought she was pretty decent in that title, since she was more just an ineffectual brat that everyone's willing to dish it back against ("Ya think this is a joke, ya lil' brat?!?"). It's only when they exaggerated her to outright feral 'everyone's afraid to drop a pin around her' levels I find her too obnoxious (eg. later Sonic X, Archie in places). I hate the sociopathic abusive girl archetype, but I think the temperamental haughty types are pretty amusing (I think Sally was much more vibrant when she was one early on for example).
     
  2. To be honest ever since Unleashed (Werehog aside. Hell I even quite liked Chip when I first saw him, really did look like an Adventurised cky character) I've liked what they've done with the characters. Tails and Amy should have been Sonic's only tagalongs in Sonic 06 really, with Shadow and Knuckles having possible solo outings. But ever since that shitestorm, that isn't going to happen.

    I really don't think they need to do a reboot. Eggman has two lackies leaving Metal Sonic to be more "serious". Colours DS, Generations HD and Free Riders give enough to say "hey these characters aren't dead!" without making them annoying and interfering.

    In terms of the next big Sonic thing. Whatever it is. I'd personally have minimal cutscenes much like Colours and Generations. Kinda leave everyone wanting more becuase looking at the general reaction to Generations is that everyone seems to want more.

    I'd have Sonic, Tails and Amy go through the story mode together. Allow some more time on Amy seeing as Tails has had a good chunk of time now in Colours and Generations.

    I imagine there is going to be another playable character in it as well. Kinda thinking Shadow to be honest. His gameplay would be a Remixed Sonic and they could continue with the all right job they did with him in Sonic '06. I'd imagine that Rouge and Omega would be tagging along too.

    As for Knuckles and Chaotix... Chaotix would be handy for slapstick humour but Knuckles would probably only appear if there was a moment on Angel Island. Also if there was level hubs I'd just have Big in each of them with Sonic mentioning "How does he get here before me?"
     
  3. Skyler

    Skyler

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    This. They've finally gotten it right and "rebooting" the characters would be idiotic.
     
  4. SSE

    SSE

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    I would prefer that the serries not rebooted.

    It would be interesting to go back and "reboot" Shadow's story though. Here's how I would do it...

    Sadow was created by Professor Gerald just to be the ultimate life form, not a hero or villain. Maria didn't exist. G.U.N. raids the ARK because they feared the ultimate life form, and soldiers capture Gerald. One of the soldiers hurts Gerald, and Shadow attacks the soldier. Shadow is captured while still on the ARK, and kept in the military base. He has grown to hate the humans and promises Gerald revenge. Then Sonic Adventure 2 happens! But just remove everything about Maria. But in the final story, Gerald's diary tells about how G.U.N. was just confused and scared about Shadow, and that they were innocent. He then states that he worries Shadow will be angry with them, and how he fears he might use the Eclipse Cannon to destroy Earth. But he states that the cannon is incomplete, and could be easily overloaded with all of the Chaos Emerald, and that the extra energy could sent the ARK crashing down towards the Earth. The team goes to the cannon and fixes all of it, but Shadow tries to stop Sonic and Knuckles from using the Master Emerald to fix it. They explain that the Earth is good and tell him about the Proffesor's diary. Shadow has a change of heart, and decides to stop the ARK. However, the biolizard shows up, and Rouge explains that it is the prototype of Shadow, and that G.U.N. supposedly destroyed it. (Remember, she is a government spy who is looking into Project Shadow.) The biolizard must want revenge, and so the rest of the final story unfolds. Shadow still falls to Earth, and he is found by Eggman, barely alive. Eggman restores his health, but he can't remember anything. Sonic Heroes comes along, and Shadow want's some answers. Also, Eggman DIDN'T make copies of Shadow. So at the end of Sonic Heroes, Shadow's friends tell him about what happens, and then he gets his memory back! Everything about the game "Shadow the Hedgehog" didn't happen (even though I'm the only one who actually likes the game). Shadow has a less dark attitude, but is still overly cocky considering he's the ULTIMATE. He also still has all of those Chaos powers.

    Less confusing, less pointless.

    PS: SEGA, give Shadow bigger roles!
     
  5. Tanicius

    Tanicius

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    Hmm. I've always had a few ideas, let's try them.

    Sonic: Assuming his mascot status didn't interfere, I'd like him to have a full range of emotions. We generally only see slight amounts of anger from him; I want to see him get really, really ticked off, like we saw with his second encounter with Shadow or when Tails was brainwashed in colors. I always liked the idea that while he's cool most of the time, the fact is he's hotblooded and prone to acting before thinking; logically this means he'll be susceptible to anger. I also want to see sadness more often out of him; I reason the fact he's usually so cheery is because sadness will just make everyone around him sad as well. What if he wasn't around anyone though? I can see that happy persona he has on so often chipping itself around. As for backstory… well, I'd like him to find a way to wiggle his way out of telling that whenever possible. He represents the lighter side of the series at this point so if he's an orphan or ran away from home or something, it should be left implied at the most. Overall I would like him to be a more flawed character, rather than the jovial ideal he is right now.

    Shadow: He needs an overhaul badly. For starters, cut out the aliens. Have it so Shadow was created several decades ago, during a fierce Cold War on Earth; Gerald wanted to cure his granddaughter but lacked the resources to do so, whereas the military wanted a weapon that their rivals could not hope to match. Thus the two came to an agreement, and Gerald procured a Chaos Emerald (or several) and began to research their properties. Investigating rumors that ancient cultures knew of the emeralds’ properties, he investigated ruins the world over, finding common hedgehog and echidna themes in many places. This would eventually lead him to discover Angel Island; presumably he would keep this a secret to preserve the island from the destructive urges of GUN and keep it out of the conflict. While on Angel Island he'd discover the murals depicting the coming battles between Super Sonic and Robotnik / Chaos. From here he would develop the idea his creation should be a hedgehog, or at least look something like the hero depicted in the murals. With his new discoveries, Gerald would go through several experiments, creating the Chaos Drives to store energy and the Artifical Chaos, also based off the cultures’ murals, before getting to work on his life's project: the Ultimate Lifeform. The Biolizard was one of many flawed beings he would create, before finally perfecting his creation and designing a being that was for all purposes organic, but stronger, smarter, and faster than anything else, while also having a natural link to chaos energy itself that would shield it from injury, disease and age. Gerald would have been ready to begin trying to apply Shadow's qualities to a living being, having him serve as a life support system for Maria in the meantime, only for the military to not only fear the fact the experiment was loyal to the professor, but that it looked like Gerald might be trying to make more. The military would storm the colony, and from there Shadow's character would remain constant to what it is now.

    Eggman: We'd need to dig up some details on his childhood. It is possible that, given the Cold War undertones, the Robotniks were originally on the side opposing the United Federation but emigrated so Gerald could use his intellect for what he viewed as the better side, though this a minor detail. I reason that Gerald's experiments into new weapons and a clean, renewable, efficient energy source made the Robotnik family incredibly rich, if not the richest family on Earth. With these levels of funds, Robotnik's father would have been preparing a bid for President, only for the ARK scandal to cause the family's name to fall into disrepair. This would have caused Robotnik Sr. to become extremely overbearing on his son, forcing him to study instead of playing with toys, telling him that he had to redeem the family's tarnished legacy. Whereas Robotnik, Sr. would despise Gerald for bringing the family shame, Robotnik himself would take interest and greatly admire his grandfather. Robotnik would become the brilliant person he is today through the hard work and studies he was pressured into, and eventually inherit the family's wealth when his father passed away (possibly through Robotnik's own hand). His experiences as a child having left him embittered, however, Robotnik wouldn't care for democracy; he was more than intelligent enough to care for society's best interests, and the ends would justify the means. Using his vast resources, Robotnik would begin small, financing numerous terrorist and criminal organisations the world over, while also setting up front companies to cover up operations.

    As the years would go by his wealth would swell to obscene levels, until he was richer than most nations, with agents in nearly every government, company, crime syndicate, and terrorist group. With this gigantic financial backbone, he would cover up where he had stashed all his money before declaring the Eggman Empire, having assembled a private army that he could use to terrorise and conquer the world. Presumably Eggman would gain control of several parts of the globe, eventually earning the ire of Sonic the Hedgehog, and their rivalry would continue into what it is today…

    Eggman would show signs of his repressed childhood constantly. Never being given a chance to grow up naturally and growing up to think he was destined for greatness, he's very immature and acts like a spoiled brat. In addition, he constructed all sorts of cartoony robots to form the backbone of his empire, at least at the start, all reflections of the fact he was denied what he always wanted as a child: companionship. His bizarre obsession with casinos and carnivals would likewise be an extension of this; he was always denied the ability to have fun well into his young adult years. He would make use of his grandfather's personal records to find out about Shadow and Angel Island, while also using the diagrams of Gerald's ARK to serve as inspiration for his Death Egg (his own ego presumably keeping him from taking over ARK and repurposing it).
     
  6. Iceguy

    Iceguy

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    There definitely are quite a few interesting ideas here! Plenty of inspiration sources, although I'd rather see them as further character development, or maybe origin stories or something similar.
    I have to say though, Tanicius' idea, while very well developed, I think it sounds... too mature? I don't know, the idea of all sorts of wars and terrorist organizations and whatnot just sound too serious for what I'd personally expect in a Sonic game. I mean, let's bear in mind the target audience for Sonic; everyone. The first Sonic games were light-hearted and everything, it was only Yuji Naka's questionable design choice to give Sonic the illusion of difficulty and maturity. Difficulty could've been implemented as something real rather than just an illusion, by clever level design and gameplay styles that are easy to learn and relatively hard to master. Think of Sonic Robo Blast 2, for example. At least pre-2.0.

    But let me come back to the topic.

    I personally wouldn't reboot characters, but I'd much rather go back in time and somehow influence the development of certain games. I'd start with Sonic Adventure and its realism. Arguably, the realism thing started in Sonic 3, but there it wasn't so serious, and besides, shortly afterwards Sonic: Flickies' Island was released and we got our checkered hills back.
    Anyways.
    In Sonic Adventure, I'd tone down the realism. A lot. I wouldn't have it on Earth, but rather on whatever planet Sonic actually lives on, and NPCs wouldn't only be humans, but also other anthropomorphic animals. Honestly, I felt Adventure was so out of place because of this. I'd have the artistic style much more like, well, Sonic. Like how it was done in most of Sonic Heroes. You know, checkered hills and cool themes and funky layouts and stuff. I'd love to have Station Square as something more like Grand Metropolis and Emerald Coast and Windy Valley more in the spirit of Seaside Hill. And of course, less scripted events and more polished collision system, but that's a different topic.
    And tone down on the story's seriousness too, dammit. I mean, this is Sonic. Wiping out a tribe of echidnas and destroying a city doesn't feel Sonic at all. I think this was inspired by the Saturday morning Sonic cartoon, which I didn't like either, because it seemed to be more like an anti-communist propaganda that came too late than anything. And didn't feel Sonic. I'd keep Tikal and Chaos, because it is an interesting story, just... not so serious. And perhaps make it simpler too, so that all the characters except Gamma would play through the same levels with their own, only slightly differing gameplay styles. Gamma would have his own story and levels and stuff.
    No, I haven't thought of any specific storylines or anything. Sorry to disappoint. I do think though that Big's personality should be more about being laid-back and relaxed than about being clueless and dumb. Speaking of Big, maybe he'd have some shorter and slower alternate routes in levels that'd enable him optional fishing (anyone played Chantelise?).

    That's all I have for now. I have depression and it causes me troubles to focus. I'm tired.
    Hope I made sense though.
     
  7. I don't think there is really a need to reboot the characters as much a there is one to re-develop the characters back into shape and flesh them.

    IMO Sonic and Eggman are OK the way there are and at most what they would need is for Sonic to be shown in a more humane way that allows the audience to relate to him such as having moments where his overconfidence gets the best out of him or gets him into trouble for underestimating his enemies. Also show him emote when his closest friends, epsecially Tails and Amy, are in danger. It's kind of bugs me how in the first two Adventure games the guy genuinelly cared for them while in Generations he felt kind of indifferent, though I think that the lack of facing possible consequences and the characters being recently written to have a predisposition that favors Sonic has something to do with it.

    In regards of Eggman, I think that what makes his action be seen as serious is when the story also shows how his actions affects others lifes. For example the story of the birds in SA1 showed Eggman as being somewhat cruel while in Colors this did not exist since his victims, the Wisps, simply did not offer anything to make me feel simpathy for them as characters.

    As for the other characters:

    *Tails: I wish he was exactly like in the Sonic OVA, having an actual balance between being a genius and also an 8 year old kid. I really adored how he looked up to Sonic (an aspect I felt has been lost) and would not only try to imitate him, but also want to have his big brother's attention and acknowledgment. The other thing was how the character had a bubbly side and at times could also be a bit feisty. The other thing is that instead of keeping him on the sidelines of the action, he should be allowed to become more involved, as in taking part of the action instead of sitting over there with that portable device he carries everywhere that seems to be sucking the humanity out of his character.

    *Amy: I personally think that she is a good character but gets very little screentime. The first thing to do ist make her again a balanced character that is well intended, kind and caring (motherly even) as well as retaining her temper and bratty side since I think those two last aspects are what keep Amy from being as flat as say, Cream.

    The other two things that I feel Amy needs are to first not make her character be built around her crush on Sonic, as I believe that Amy is so much more than that and the audience cannot see the other endearing traits of the character if the writters focus only on that aspect alone. The other thing she needs is relevance. Personally I think that Amy, simply because she has similar motivations to Tails, should be just as important as him (plus she has been shown in previous game as one who is capable of having weight in the plots). Personally I think that the only two characters who should tag along with Sonic should be just Tails and Amy for the most part. Plus I like the whole contrast between the kid genius who helps Sonic in the more practical areas, and the magical girl who helps and supports Sonic in the moral aspects (note, this does not mean I want Amy to babysit Sonic's flaws, but rather encourage him to find within him what he needs to do the right thing, considering his shown moral values in Black Knight). However Amy should also retain the "freedom" to also work and socialize with other characters outside the main team.

    *Knuckles: I don't mind him being, like E-122 psi said, the comically serious guy with a touch of Donald Duck. My only problem though is that for some reason Sega thinks that Knuckles needs to be pegged with Sonic and Tails all of the time, and at least the way I see it, that's something that comes off at the expense of his character. Personally I'd like to have him onboard too since he can also add some entertaining interactions with the other characters such as Sonic and Amy, though I also would like to see how he handles others like Rouge, Eggman (I'd like to see this be fleshed out since he's pretty much the first person Knuckles ever meet in his life), and if he were to be brought back, Fang. Also to use Knuckles only when needed instead of being shoehorned for mundane reasons while neglecting his role as guardian and being OK with it, which is a bit OOC for him.
     
  8. Hukos

    Hukos

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    I could understand rebooting after 06, but now? It's like you're getting what you finally wanted (Good games) and then you want to piss that away. Oh retro :rolleyes:
     
  9. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

    "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect" Member
    With Sonic, all I want is his coolness to stem from his actions more than his words again. Look to the Sonic CD opening to see what I mean. Dialogue from Sonic should be scarce at best, non-existent otherwise, with dialogue belonging primarily to Eggman. You can tell Sonic's cool, legit and pissed in CD's opening at what's going on, but you can also tell that he's not always like that by how he treats the Badniks in the credits animation. He's relaxed, can almost be lazy when nothing's going on, easily annoyed occasionally (Like in the Sonic OVA) but knows when things get serious and his attitude changes accordingly. When he's dealing with a serious threat or intense situation, he'll be appropriately intense, but when he knows he's got the situation completely under control, he knows it, and being as full of himself as he is, he brags about it in his actions and his words.

    Basically:

    Normal situation:
    Relaxed, bored, lazy, easily annoyed, but easily distracted and amused (Kinda ADD, maybe?)

    With friends: Kind of a douche, but in the same way as any real-life friend would be, a show-off, practical joker, but can still be easily annoyed or distracted. When a serious or dangerous situation, he'll always put them first. Always the "cool" guy that others are drawn to, in one way or another, good or bad.

    Intense situation: Focused, intense, unable to be deterred.

    Losing side of a fight / someone is in trouble or hurt by Eggman: Pissed, relentless, no one can change his mind, will see it through to the end.

    Winning side of a fight: Show-off, careless, makes it a game.

    With Eggman: Just a straight up douche, and will make fun at Eggman's expense.

    So we can either have good gameplay or more interesting characters? We can't have both? You're missing the point of this thread. It's about the character's personality, not how the game plays. They're getting close to perfect on the actual gameplay part, but Sonic has been acting like a parody of himself ever since Sonic Heroes. THAT could see massive improvement.
     
  10. Mortimer

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    Hah, well nice to see this still went on awhile ... after all the 'this topic is stupid and your stupid for thinking it!' posts I gave up for awhile. I suppose I don't see a reboot as scraping the good gameplay of recent (which is debatable, its IMPROVED gameplay over certain unmentionable predecessors, sure, but I just don't like saying 'No! this is good enough! don't change anything now, you might ruin it!') ... just a retelling of the story.

    At anyrate this was just for fun and maybe share some views on what people wanted the characters to come out like or how they could have developed.
     
  11. InstantSonic

    InstantSonic

    Just add water! Oldbie
    If I were to reboot Sonic, I'd simply hit "reset" on my Genesis.
     
  12. Nado The Rabbit

    Nado The Rabbit

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    I'm currently working on my Sonic fanfiction, Carnation.
    I think Sonic's just fine the way he is right now. He jokes around, is optimistic, and really just seems like a more mature version of his Dreamcast self. He's still pretty cocky, just in a bit of a different, laid back way. I wish I would see a bit of that bratty cocky side again, too. But I'm satisfied either way.

    If you asked me about Tails four years ago, I'd be complaining for hours. But his character has been close to perfect since Colors. He's no longer just Sonic's sidekick, he's finally his best friend, as he should be. The amount of time they spent joking with each other in Colors made me so relieved that my favourite character was finally getting what he's deserved for a long time. ("Good job to you on inventing a translator that allowed us to speak to the aliens and figure out exactly what we needed to do so we weren't running around the park looking like idiots. Oh no wait, that was me." YES. More of that, please.) In the Sonic Adventure games, you could really see the character development coming, with him getting braver and more mature. But Sega pretty much scrapped that idea in Heroes, and Tails was a typical kid character until Unleashed, where he started improving. So personally, I think Sega should leave him as he is now.

    Knuckles... Well, this guy seems to have taken a major personality turn in SA1, but looking back at S3&K, was he really much different? He was more cocky, yes, but Dr Robotnik still managed to fool him, didn't he? (I haven't finished that game yet, but I'm pretty sure that's what happens.) He lives on an island by himself, of course he'd be easily fooled. The only time I ever thought that Knuckles was treated as a real idiot though was in Sonic X. Aside from Sonic 06, I thought he was still fine in the games. And Sonic Heroes. As much as I love that game, he was insanely out of character. My only real complaint of the current games is... whatever happened to Knuckles guarding the Master Emerald. We haven't heard mention of it since Sonic 06, and haven't actually seen it since SA2. Come on, Sega!

    Now, I'm actually a pretty big fan of Amy Rose. I think she's a fun character to watch; she definitely adds a lot of colour and balances out the cast well. However, she's become a weak character over the years. I did love how over-the-top she was, how she was so excited over wanting Sonic to marry her, how stubborn but determined she was, all of that makes a great character. However, as the games went on, her only purpose was to be the "love interest"(Or whichever way you want to word it.) in the series. In Sonic Adventure, she followed Sonic around, but her story wasn't revolved all around him, as she had her own problems to take care of. In Sonic Adventure 2, she helps Shadow realize Maria's final request. Even in Sonic Heroes, where her goal may have been to find Sonic, she still teamed up with her friends so they could all help each other out, because she still had a purpose in that game. But as time went on, probably starting with Rivals, if not sooner, all she did was talk about Sonic, follow Sonic, she didn't do anything for the plot in that game. She did improve somewhat in Sonic 06 since she got along with Silver and helped him out, but then we have the whole "Even if Sonic was the Iblis Trigger, I would still love him. I'd choose him over the world." scene, which ruined her character all over again. She loves Sonic because he's a hero. She wouldn't be sticking by his side otherwise. Well, I do think Sega's actually started getting the hang of it in Unleashed. She still adores him, but is coming back in character. The one thing I loved was when she found out that the Werehog and Sonic were one in the same. She didn't care about his appearance, which proves how much she loves him, and actually warmed my heart a little. See, it's stuff like that I want to see with her. It may be true that the only thing she really did in Generations was obsess over him again, however she had few scenes to begin with where she could express her personality as more than just the typical "clingy girl", and at least they were hilarious. I'm just hoping her next big role is a mix of her old self and Unleashed, with maybe a moment or two like in Generations if Sega can pull it off.

    Dr Robotnik/Eggman is doing pretty well. He's hilarious, has some great moments, and is just great. My only problem is that I'm hoping that he has some more moments like he did in the Adventure games, such as how he spoke at the end of Tails' story, or how he nearly killed Sonic. Even turning Sonic into a Werehog was fantastic. And although he did enslave the Wisps in Colors, he did very little to Sonic and Tails that came off as threatening. So I'm hoping he could be a mixture of his old and new selves.

    Shadow... Where do I begin? First off, as much of a nostalgia nerd as I'm going to sound, he was perfect in Adventure 2. He was mysterious, lonely, had a tragic backstory, had hatred for humanity, but still had a good heart. You could tell that he felt lost, you felt sympathy for the hedgehog. You tear up when he sacrifices himself at the end not just for humans in general, but for Maria. And when they brought him back in Sonic Heroes... he actually wasn't bad. I find that it didn't really ruin SA2's ending, because he still sacrificed something, which turned out to be his memories. You still feel just as much sympathy for him now as you did in the last game, he doesn't remember a single thing shown in SA2. And after the changes made, he was still perfectly in character. It was Shadow's own game that started crapping on his character. Instead of having Shadow slowly regain him memories throughout the games like you thought he would from Heroes' pacing with that idea, Sega just thinks "Screw it." and clears up EVERYTHING in his past in ONE GAME. There are two problems with this. One was that it would have been interesting to see Shadow figure things out as a subplot when the games went on, if he did at all. Sega just rushed things all in one game. The other is that we didn't know much of his backstory, which kept him mysterious, but we knew all we wanted to. Never did fans want all the details; we were happy with what we already got. So I would much prefer a subplot where Shadow finds out the things we already knew over a game dedicated to adding all these new plot twists to his backstory. Another big problem with that game was Shadow's personality change. He becomes so much more aggressive in this one game, and as the games go on, the reason he distances himself from everyone changes. He used to just stay by himself as he felt alone in the world. But now, he pretty much believes he's better than everyone else. Did you see him at the end of Generations? He wasn't lonely, he just crossed his arms and ignored everything like he had better things to do. I just loved how dejected Shadow used to feel, but now he acts more out of anger or boredom. I'm waiting for the day Shadow returns to his roots. I'm not just some kid who dislikes change, I'm really not, in fact I love certain things about this series more than I should. It's just that I miss how great Shadow was, but I have hope. Sega's starting to get back on track with the characters, so I'm waiting for Shadow's turn.

    Rouge the Bat was perfectly fine in SA2 as well. She was a snob, but had some heart. She was a thief, but also had other things on her mind. She constantly teased Knuckles, but really had a crush on him. She was great. Sadly, as time went on, she became much more bland and Sega focused more on her flirty side, being the only part of her personality she had left. Come on, where's that bee-yotch we all know and love? I want her personality back, dammit!

    Silver's definitely a great character. His only real problems were Sonic 06's story messing up, and not so much his personality flaws. I would love to see him with a big role exploring his character properly in an upcoming game. Blaze seems to be alright the way she is. I think we need to see more of these two before I can get a solid opinion on them. So far though, they're not bad.

    Last but not least, I'm waiting for Metal Sonic to make a return. A bigger role than he had in Generations, at least. Also, please make him silent again. I'm not one normally complains about characters talking(other than Classic Tails talking but Classic Sonic not), but I've always seen Metal Sonic as a silent character. Him speaking threw me off a little in Sonic Heroes. It's just a little nitpick, but I'm a huge Metal Sonic fan who'd love to see him return, and hopefully be silent. But I won't complain too much on that one.

    So there are my opinions on most of the characters. If Sega worked on these, I'd proudly call the Sonic cast my absolute favourite group of characters in ANY franchise. But so far, things are looking alright. ;) Also, one last thing. I'm still waiting for Cosmo to make a canon appearance. I can dream.
     
  13. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    Giving this a go...

    Sonic could go with more personality traits than "cocky" and "hyperactive". I miss his irritability and sassiness he had, plus Sonic was always a really chill character, so putting him under the "gotta go fast" thing just because he has super speed has always felt offputting and the lame way out to me. I guess thats all there really is to fixing him.. other than let him make mistakes and not have everything just work out for him. If you want an interesting character then you gotta seriously let him have his faults.

    Tails is fine, I guess. Maybe if we just gave him more interaction? The stories show him tagging along with Sonic in cutscenes and CG shorts, but never in-game (not counting Sonic 4 Episode 2, but then again what's a Sonic 4). Tails following Sonic a bit more actively and helping him out would be pretty nice.

    Knuckles just needs to go back to how he was before 2003. I'm not really sure how a character can derail from being a wise and controlled warrior-treasurehunter-protector guy with issues comprehending social interaction to being.. well, a meathead that gets really mad and punchy about everything. Not to mention the whole Angel Island / Master Emerald dynamic thing just kinda flew out the window. Just bring it back to that I guess. That and the deeper, calmer voice.. or at least a voice that isn't a Dan Green soundalike. And make him do the 'treasure hunting' thing more. Extra points if you add the hat.

    Eggman's basically fine, but the way he plans his schemes seem to leave massive spaces in the story where nothing is going on is kind of lame. I'd blame that more on the writers though and not on his actual way of being.

    Amy has suffered much like Knuckles; starting off as a sweet girl that wants to help people, believing in the mystic and having a heavy-bearing crush on her hero.. which then progressively transformed into "stalker girl who is obsessed with Sonic and acts as a major annoyance to him and everyone". I'd prefer her to be like she used to be, unless we just wanna go in the direction of everyone hating her, which I'm okay with too. :v:

    Blaze I'd just remove everything related to her and Silver's interaction in '06. It didn't make any sense at all. Otherwise she's great, in fact one of the better Sonic characters.

    Cream.. what personality? Eh, I'd make her a character more dependent on her mom, and Cheese. Give her this really "slice-of-life" feel that kind of gives you a peek into how the daily lives for the more normal anthro-ish people are. Maybe make her have a berserker button, would be funny?

    Shadow I'd reboot to not have any relations to Black Arms, and to be a drunk. He's gone through a lot. GUN gave him a free job since they felt bad for that whole big happening on the ARK where they killed his only family, whatever. Shadow just kinda gets wasted in his misery and flails all over the place trying to do good while his friends Omega and Rouge try to get him sobered up. Speaking of which..

    Rouge I'd make a lot classier. Keep the femme fatale, add more "French spy" to it rather than the blatant oversexualization, if you're gonna do anything like that, especially in a more all-ages series like this, make the sexuality implied, not up in your face (read: boobs). She owns a club, you'd expect her to be in really stylish clothing and dresses, whatnot, drinking champagne and looking at the city life below! She works as a freelance spy for GUN but most of the time she spends her days getting money by babysitting Omega and Shadow while they attempt to be good soldiers. This whole "high life" thing with Rouge would also help the dynamic of how different her and Knuckles are, which in turn would help their interactions.

    Silver I'd totally redo. Make him a kid, and a porcupine (seriously, porcupines have much bigger, crazier spikes, and it would be better than another hedgehog). He wants to be a superhero and believes he has the power to be one (his psychokinesis) but he feels intimidated by people pointing out how young and naive he is, so he covers his body in a cape, and controls floating gloves / boots which appear to make him look taller / more adult.

    The Chaotix though.. they're fine. Just having them around more would do good. Same with Big. Metal Sonic is fine too.

    And that's all the characters I can think of that'd mean anything.
     
  14. Mortimer

    Mortimer

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    Some great stuff :)

    I'll continue after my long absence

    Mighty (Again)
    After the last post I considered Mighty for awhile, in the end I decided I might have him as the 'original hero' and despite his name he's just a regular armadillo, no super strength or anything, in fact his name comes more from his actions than his abilities. In Sonic's youth he perhaps idolizes Mighty who has retired into obscurity as Sonic begins to come into his own in the world.

    Big the Cat
    Finally into the ... er ... modern era? well not so much anymore. The most likely change is Big will not be playable, or at least not outside of minigame/unlockable content. And I also may 'kill off' Big's biggest crutch ... Froggy. I imagine Big living in a swampy jungle, fishing from a raft ... maybe he has an affinity for frogs, but he will no have his one frog he will chase around the world. Big will also have his dumbdumb personality toned back, he wont be a genius but he will be more or the quiet and slow type who speaks only a few times, rarely mentioning frogs. More of a humble hillbilly'ish sort living on the Mississippi akin to something out of Tom Sawyer (if it had giant purple cats). Other than that he's kindly, abit timid but good-natured and even alittle heroic at times in his own right (I imagine him fishing out people in Chaos' flood to save them from drowning), storywise he'd be somewhat of a recurring NPC.

    Chaos
    I wouldn't really change Chaos much, except maybe a few design tweaks (terribly tempted to get rid of the head turnip) but mostly I'd like to explore the story and history of the ancient gods more deeply and tie them more intricately into the nature of Sonic's world.

    Gamma
    I'm tempted to take Gamma's story in a different direction ... why you cry? Well, because in a way he was done mostly right in his one outing I can't think of any tweaks to improve him. If anything I'd extend his story out abit, his overcoming his programming seemed just abit abrupt and I thought it could been developed further.

    Shadow
    As many of also said I'd scrap a large portion of his current story and start from scratch. Shadow will be a genetically engineered weapon suffering a sort of amnesia still, who is discovered by Eggman, who will believe he is manipulating Shadow at first to do stuff like impersonate and frame Sonic (Without the blatant videos showing a totally different looking hedgehog committing crimes or an agency like GUN having prior knowledge of Shadow and than going after Sonic). Eggman will come to realize that Shadow is not so much the puppet he thought and he becomes intimidated by the true powers he has as Shadow tells the good doctor how things are really going to go down, perhaps as bits and pieces of his memory return. Shadow would not trust Rouge at all at first, it would be her delving into the truth about him that creates a sort of bound (Or some sympathy on Rouges part) ... and out of sheer fanboyism a Super Sonic vs Super Shadow battle near the end rather than funny dinosaur monsters. How and if Gerald plays a part I'm not sure, and if Maria makes a return either ... and I guess out of hindsight I wouldn't kill Shadow off seeing as we are obviously going to bring him back, or at least do it alot more neatly. Made from Aliens? Probably not ....

    Rouge
    I know some find it inappropriate but I quite like flirty Rouge, what I'd do more is play up her cunning side, make the flirting abit of a diversion from the fact that she is really quite intelligent, not in an Tails/Eggman way but in an investigative/perceptive way. Alot of her parts in SA2 where really weird to me, drop in on Eggman and Shadow and say "Hey guys! I can help!" and them being "Well ok" was just ... weird, I had an idea of a similar situation where Rouge lets herself get caught and displays her skills by escape to prove she can get them their Emeralds. Other than that she would have similar personality traits to what she has displayed ... likes to mess with Knuckles, patronizes Amy, gets Tails all shy and flustered, harmlessly exchanges flirting with Sonic and teases Shadow's seriousness why still showing she cares for him ... the likes of the Chaotix and Fang she would consider dorks not worth her time. She would still love jewels, but would tone down the blatantness of it infront of people "All the worlds jewels are mine" Well off course people are going to cling to their jewelry and giant magic rocks.
     
  15. BuffaloWilder

    BuffaloWilder

    One of these men cannot be right. Member
    I'm less interested in major motivational revisions to the characters than I am emotional or tonal ones. The series needs tonal consistency, and it needs to stop being so emotionally insecure with itself. Don't be afraid to be cool, quirky, sci-fi, spiritual, genuinely dramatic and goofy all at once. Embrace it, like they used to do in days of yore. That's what's always been so attractive to me about the old Genesis games - they're just this weird, surreal blend of all of these Japanese and American cultural, visual and storytelling influences, and it's just pulled off with such confident synergy that you don't give it a second thought.

    Outside of that, I think most of the characters are fine in terms of their motivations, if not their three-dimensionality or lack-thereof. Right now, they're all archetypes - Sonic basically personifies youthful rebellion and joy and nature, like Peter Pan. I'd take that farther and play with it. That'd be the fun of it, for me - pitting him up against a Dr. Robotnik who is just the emblem of every bad thing about us, up to eleven. Think Fleetway, almost. In doing that, there's some of that cool mythic resonance lurking underneath that I've always liked in my Good vs. Evil stories.

    I'd place it in a hyper-surreal Art-Deco retro-future world where hovercraft is the main mode of transport and robots are commonplace, and furries walk side by side with regular people. There's no telling exactly how far into the future this is, exactly. This might even be an alternate dimension where evolution took a different path. Weird religious ruins dot the landscape, built by these furry creatures, so it goes back pretty far. It's a world where nature is fiercely trying to reclaim itself from technology, and mythology is becoming more and more important. That's all I've got right now, but it provides a pretty good motivation and excuse for Robotnik. Then, from there, it seems simple - at least for the first game: two opposing forces. Both want the Chaos Emeralds for their own ends. One is the personification of Nature and Rebellion, the other of Wreckless Industrialization and Manifest Destiny. This future world is their battleground. Go!

    (of course, I use furry as a general term, here.)
     
  16. P3DR0

    P3DR0

    b0ss Member
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    SONIC INFINITY
    Oh boy, oh boy... If I were to reset the series... (Which I'm actually doing with my fangame, btw), I would make these changes:

    Sonic
    - Closer to his OVA's character, cocky, humored and impatient. Good hearth with just enough attitude so it doesn't become this "power of the friendship" thing that it had became a few years back. Not very bright, but neither stupid.

    Tails
    - Closer to Sonic than he has been for the past years (in the latest games Sonic and Tails doesn't look like that fantastic duo and Tails is more of a "guy who rides the plane" than one of the heroes). Since he looks up for Sonic he tries his best to "imitate" him, being a bit cocky and humored as well. He can't be as carefree as Sonic due his sweet nature and most of the time he is responsible for keeping Sonic closer the ground, you know how it is the brains of the duo.

    Knuckles
    - Drop that whole emerald guardian horsecrap, that was a terrible story from the very beggining. Knuckles is a treasure hunter and a bounty hunter, he does the job that most can't. He is smart in his own way and more strategic instead of the headstrong "shoot first ask later" kind of guy he has been. He works by himself but often times get together with Sonic and Tails to help out in their adventure. His relationship with Sonic is more of a brotherly kind with just a spice of rivalry in between (Think of Vergil's and Dante relationship in the newest Devil May Cry game, subtract the dick jokes and stuff like that and you can get a base of what I'm thinking).

    Dr. Robotnik
    Robotnik it is. Eggman is an insult nickname that Sonic gives him and he likes it as much as fat kids like being called "Free Willy. He does not call himself that way and gets really annoyed when people do. Robotnik is a child trapped in a genius mind which drove him a bit crazy. His enormous IQ is at the same time his biggest gift and his worst curse. His plans are generaly childish-like without real "evil" means, like building an amusement park, becoming the president of the world, etc. and some of his plans could even be considered "good" but with a poor execution that puts people in harms way. He is the worst kind of evil there is: the one that doesn't know it is doing the bad thing. He is chaotic by nature, a mad man.

    Amy Rose
    She is what she should be, an romantic figure. She is like every steriotipical 13~14 years old girl, that kind that makes magazine cut outs of pop singers, sings using a hairbrush, drinks fake tea with teddy bears, etc. Her path crossed ways with Sonic once and she become obsessed with him, she is not annoying as "Sanik let's haev a date" she is just a silent stalker and a good girl none the less hoping to get noticed. Sometimes she does the part of the donzel in disstress but generally doesn't get in the way.

    The remaining characters can all die in a fire for all I care.
     
  17. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
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    I admit I would have liked a real Director's Cut of SA1 that gives an extension of Gamma's story without outright rewriting it (notice the huge time gap between his first and second mission). At least a couple more scenes of him serving the Doctor inbetween and maybe a tad of his sentience and self doubt emerging.

    Thinking more about Sonic, I couldn't help but notice that, for all people complain about the Werehog, his characterization in Unleashed actually seemed fuller than the real Sonic, being overall sweet natured and passive, but a tad more visibly irritated and emotional. My favorite scene is when he's trying to talk to one of the Gaia bosses that's been revived, while Chip's antics constantly bug him (to the point he eventually nonchalently flicks him away). We saw this a little in Generations in how he was playing around with Amy.

    I like at least that the Japanese Sonic, while having rare abrasive instances, arguably executes them to a better level than the American Sonic usually does, maintaining this sort of lovable playfulness to it all rather than ending up looking like an overglorified schoolbully.

    If we can extend this to other media characters:

    Sally

    The antithesis of Sonic in terms of strategy and approach; meticulous, overcautious and 'by the book', albeit with a heavy 'Not So Different' arrogance in demonstrating it. Heavy emphasis should be put onto the fact that this strategy isn't automatically better or worse than Sonic's, having different moments either her or Sonic screw things up and require the other's backup depending on the circumstance (or even require a compromise of both or a third party to give an alternate plan when they both falter). Somehow when I see a well done Sally, I kinda see Twilight Sparkle; a 'Comically Serious' character who can take the Straight Man role in her intricate approach, but just as often a insecure control freak who instigates things as badly by trying to contrast her more reckless team mates. This would in turn help round off Sonic better since not only would Sally's better moments likely add fallibility to his arrogance, her Idiot Ball ones would show his spontaneous approach isn't 100% reckless and sometimes a more simplistic method is necessary (I don't think Sonic's ever had a full on foil that trades moral ground with him on an equal basis, though Sally done properly would be ideal for this).

    Antoine

    I think they need to find a compromise with the two extremes of the character. As much as people praise Archie for 'developing' Antoine, it seems more fan service that has left the character in a dead end due to losing most of his trademark flaws, thus is limited to being a background soldier or being collateral damage to dramatic plot points such as recently. I don't think Antoine being pompous and cowardly was a bad thing, just not to point of simplifying him into a Straw Loser with no redeeming aspects. I think there should still be points he instigates a problem or goofs off to show he is still old Ant, just now he might be more capable of redeeming himself and fixing the mistakes he made.

    Rotor

    The 'Adorkable' nerd of the group. I think Rotor got his personality diluted somewhat when Antoine took over as the clumsy dork of the group (the latter himself now diluted heavily). I feel he fits the awkward geek persona more than Ant (whose more a Miles Gloriosus) or Tails (whose more a precocious kid with bouts of childishness). I liked the prototype idea of him being one of Sonic's closer friends as a kid, it gives some humanization to both the characters since Sonic is pretty much the idolized jock of the group. I was kinda fond of an early plot in Satam where Rotor wanted to have the same prowess as Sonic and being a hero on the field, I feel this could have placed effect on his Iron Rotor role, how I'd love to see him geeking out at basically being a full on superhero.

    Not sure what to make of gay revelation, it just seemed a cheap shock value revelation to an underdeveloped character, and Pender's reasoning (because Rotor is social awkward and shy) refers to personality traits we rarely see in the first place.
     
  18. It's funny how for many people the concept of character development means losing that which once made a character stand out, making them act more 'mature" only to please the faceless masses that demand for characters to live up to their standards and behave. (it's worse when the moment that is supposed to lead a character to change the way he/she acts is not even showned, which leaves a sensation that it was all pulled out of the writer's buttocks)

    I think that rather than taking away a character's trait, they should instead be re-focused in a way that is consistent with the experience they have gained. It also helps a lot if said character has an actual goal of his/her own besides the generic "gotta save/protect the world". It helps a character feel more believable while giving it a degree of individuality.