IDW Megathread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Dark Sonic, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. Jason

    Jason

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    This arc has been going on for 7 issues. In that span, we've seen Eggman test, unleash, and lose control of a plan. We've also taken inventory on the cast while the fallout is occuring. So far, it's a steady pace for a story. If it drags out longer than 12 issues, I'd agree. But for now, it feels about right.

    I'm not sure if Shadow being turned is more of a sign of his appeal, or his unimportance to the series at large at this point :V.
     
  2. Laughingcow

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    Decided to take a look at the current issue out of curiosity. Shadow has gone full Vegeta in this. Just replace "Ultimate Lifeform" with "Prince of all Saiyans". Shadow himself not having an immunity to the metal virus seems like a missed opportunity though this looks less like a virus and more like living metal sludge with the Midas touch.

    Overall, meh. Zombies are attacking, lets go through the tropes until Tails makes a cure. Not bad for a kids comic but definitely meh.
     
  3. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

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    Also kinda brings back the idea that the Central City seen on the map might very well be the SA2 one, which is going to really stir the pot if it is. Although I feel like any callback is just going to be in the form of 'nods' instead of anything solid.

    Things like G.U.N are probably stuck in a "If we don't acknowledge them directly, we don't have to admit they exist or that we've retconned them out, therefore everyone's happy." situation. Fans can then make up their own minds.
     
  4. BlackHole

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    I really don't get why Humans can't just exist on not-Mobius. What, are the anthropomorphic apes too different?
     
  5. Jason

    Jason

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    They haven't been in a Sonic game in over a decade, so I guess Sega won't let them in anywhere.
     
  6. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

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    Having a thought today, but It's kinda amusing how the Mario games manage this without any problems, when you'd think it would be more of an issue in a much more cartoony franchise. But they kept it simple: "Characters go to <X> Location, where <X> race of people live", whether it's Humans, Aliens, Animals or whatever. Which is more or less how Yuji Naka presented it around the SA1/SA2 era, considering each game has been set in it's own contained location.

    It's not like after Mario Sunshine, Miyamoto had to sit in interviews and explain in detail why the Pianta people of Mario Sunshine aren't appearing in New Super Mario Bros U, and say "We have two different worlds for Mario games – one is the Pianta world, and one is set on the non-Pianta side." and start behind-the-scenes rewriting the entire lore. Because that would be a bit silly... :rolleyes:
     
  7. Laughingcow

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    Sega doesn't want to invoke anything that could be considered Archie-like. Humans and using the word "mobian" are off the table as a result. Yes I am saying this is Pender's fault. The current "two-worlds" explanation shouldn't be off the table in the comic yet I don't think it's been mentioned at all. Much like with Sonic 3's music, I'm certain there is an NDA stopping anyone from commenting on the situation.

    The simplest answer is often the correct one. It's like asking why Shadow doesn't have Silver go to the past and save Maria. Because the thought hasn't crossed Iizuka/Sonic Team's mind.

    Mario gets away with anything and everything because Miyamoto has stated that it's all a stage with Mario and company just being actors in a game/story. Simplicity like that keeps things from getting convoluted.
     
  8. Naw, new characters bleed into other areas often in Mario. Piantas showed up in Rogue Port and its adjacent locales right on the heels of Sunshine. (They may have showed other places too, but my Mario knowledge is getting spottier as time marches on).

    One of the more interesting--to me personally--examples are badduns from SMB2, because SMB2 originally had no thematic connection to Mario aside from starmen and POW! blocks. Shyguys' presence in later games ranges from infrequent to omnipresent, their affiliation with Bowser is likewise all over the map. Moreover, they've become synonymous more with Yoshi than Mario for several years, if not still now. (It was my headcanon that Subcon was invaded by creatures from Mario's early childhood memories)

    But all that is the magic of leaving enough blank for audience members to fill in the blanks and thereby engage them, whether they're conscious of it or not. In the case of Mario, it's that way by design...

    ..Well, except the Doki Doki Panic becoming SMB2 at NoA's behest, but they didn't need to keep anything from DDP.

    Then Miyamoto started vetoing new characters presumably to keep thing tidy. (That may have changed with Odyssey, which I have not yet played)
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
  9. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

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    Oh yeah I get that, and that's kinda similar to how we saw humans for a while in other Modern Sonics around that time.
    But what I meant was in my example, when Piantas started to NOT turn up any one or two games (again using New SMB series or Galaxy 1 as examples), it's not like Nintendo had to go into interviews and retcon the entire Mario 'story' to explain why, because there was no need to. People could just assume common sense which is how it should have been for the Sonic series.

    But now we've got a strange situation where Iizuka has said one thing (Human World/Sonic's World), and the IDW comics and games are trying to stick to that, whilst also trying to reference older Modern Sonic games (SA2, etc) without talking about the how's and why's. It's a bit of a mess and I'm half convinced the idea's been dropped already. I mean, we won't ever see Humans again in Sonic, but the concept of "There are Humans in Station Square, etc" will still hold true even in the IDW-verse - they just won't ever acknowledge it in story and let the fans decide for themselves.

    Yeah, I do wonder how much of the Penders shockwave effected the future direction of the games, with Colors going back to simpler plots to get away from all that shit - especially since it was a big story game (Dark Brotherhood) that seemed to trigger the worst of it to start with.
     
  10. Pengi

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    That's a huge leap in logic. Ken Penders has absolutely nothing to do with human characters in the Sonic series, or the planet Mobius.

    Ian Flynn has openly said that the IDW comic is following the Sonic's World/Human World rule, because currently that's the official set-up.
     
  11. Laughingcow

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    Ken Penders sued over Sonic and the Dark Brotherhood on a premise that it used "similar" stuff to what he wrote. If anything in the IDW is seen in that "similar" light, you can bet Penders will try to sue. We aren't talking about the games (which themselves have purged all the humans probably for budgetary reasons) but a specific part of Sonic Media with particular circumstances that make it legally vulnerable. Funny you'd bring up the planet mobius when one of the mandates was to never refer to the planet as such. You can bet your ass if any "Overlanders" show up, he'll tweet up a storm.
     
  12. Pengi

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    Sonic Chronicles blatantly cribbed ideas from the Archie Knuckles comic. That's a different set of circumstances.

    I brought up "Mobius" because you brought up "Mobian".

    Ian Flynn answered a question about this in a recent episode of his podcast. The planet Mobius and its derivatives are off-limits because it was old Sega of America Sonic Bible stuff that is no longer part of the brand. As far as Sonic Team is concerned, it's just "Sonic's World".

    As for humans, the rule of the current Sonic brand is that Sonic's World and the Human World are separate. There's been no indication that the Human World is actually off-limits. More on that here.
     
  13. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Nor does he have anything to do with the concept of a multiverse and alternate Sonics interacting, but allegedly that was also off the table during the last years of the Archie run.

    Hence no Boom and regular Sonic shenanigans.

    I'm the one that started it with my not-Mobius comment.

    And honestly, until we get an official name for "Sonic's World", I'm going to keep calling it Mobius. I like the name, like Dr. Robotnik, and it's not my problem if SEGA of Japan are whingy that SEGA of America garnered more interest in the brand in the US and seek to force the Japanese version of things over everything, including not bothering to name things with US-based names despite not even bothering to use a name at all.

    Minor rant over, the easiest thing to have done would be to ignore that Humans and Mobians exist on the planet together and simply treat it as "That's how it's always been" deal. If Mobians existed on Earth alongside Humans, the most questions there'd be would be "when was the divide". If they really want an explanation: Chaos Emeralds interfered with Earths development, giving the creatures of Earth sentience and powers, since they can render some of them Super. Boom, sorted.
     
  14. Laughingcow

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    No, it isn't. The fact that you are trying to cast Penders in the right on this when "his ideas" are generic sci-fi ideas taken from better media.

    Yet there are no humans ANYWHERE and none have been seen since Sonic Unleashed circa 2008. Never mind that the explanation given was taken from an old piece of cancelled Sonic media i.e. Sonic X which doesn't have legal ramifications attached to it. Much like with the Sonic 3 music, we aren't being told the truth on the matter, that much is obvious.
     
  15. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Maybe they realized humans made no sense in Sonic and did away with them. But they kinda screwed themselves with Shadow's back story. Clearly Eggman had a human grandfather, so other humans exist, just Sonic Team never makes up their mind.

    Really what they need to do is have the humans and furries coexist. This all or nothing approach makes no sense. In the Adventure era it was just Sonic and his weird deformed friends in the human world (also unleashed and 06) but then the other games are Sonic and furries but there's Eggman the human for god knows why. So the late Archie approach was prob the best. Humans and furries coexist in a world. Done.

    Also ffs just call the planet "Mobius." It's a name. "Sonic's world" is the dumbest fucking phrasing. Itd be like if the earth was called "Trump's world" because he's president.
     
  16. Laughingcow

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    I know this is derailing the topic but I would argue that humans fit in just fine in Sonic's universe. The ONLY reason we have a discussion about this is due to the humans becoming plot important, and because Sonic kissed one in 06. To beat the dead Mario horse again, there's human Mario then there's the humans of New Donk City, nobody cares. We only discuss these story details because they've been pushed to the forefront in such a negative fashion.

    I want to bring up that Yuji Naka's explanation in that the world was like that and there were no humans before because it took place on isolated islands but I can't find the damn quote. Two worlds was never necessary and I do think the games lack of humans is more for budget reasons. In the IDW comic though, I think they want to avoid the twitter troll known as Penders.

    It used to just be Earth but the two worlds split means they can't call a supposed second world that. It's lazy to just call it "Sonic's World" but so was the implementation of Sonic X's two worlds canon. It's clear canon right now is written just by Iizuka who isn't much of a writer (see Shadow the Hedgehog, the game he wrote the entire script for). It doesn't help the other option for writers was Pontaff and Graff (who were more suited to Sonic Boom then the main canon). I do think a new bible needs to be written for the games/media going forward and that it needs to be public so we know where everything stands. Classic Dimension, Blaze's Dimension, Silver's Future, Shadow's/human World (which for some reason has Angel Island), Sonic's World, Sonic Generations splitting of the timeline, there's a lot to explain here. Not a novel's worth but still a lot of explanation.
     
  17. Pengi

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    Sonic Chronicles was directly inspired by the Knuckles comics. The Nocturnus, Shade and the Twilight Cage were proxies of the Dark Legion, Juli-Su and the Twilight Zone.

    That timeline doesn't make sense. Ken Penders' characters didn't get pulled from the comics until late 2012. Iizuka first mentioned the "two worlds" concept in August 2010. Humans kept on appearing in the Archie comics long after the Penders-purge.
     
  18. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Actually @Laughingcow, I'm curious. You say human characters are out of budget.. wtf does that mean? Generations was about the important characters, lost world was about the deadly six who were new, and forces was new furries. Nothing has been reused for a while. So what does budget have to do with it?
     
  19. Laughingcow

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    Instead of arguing I'm going to say: You are right. Ken Penders definitely need to be paid off for his work if Sega uses ANYTHING resembling his derivative writing...Which means the concept of Humans and Mobians living together can never happen because that would infringe on his Overlanders concept...Which he may not actually be responsible but he has the copyrights.

    Furthermore Archie "settled" with Penders which is different from IDW's current situation of not wanting anything to do with the prick. Humans in the GAMES stopped with Sonic Unleashed which I assume was motivated by negative reception (Elise) and budget reduction with the simplest answer being the Sonic X canon. Humans in the post-Archie comic book though may never show up either at Sega's secret behest or due to potential lawsuit implications with a crazy person. Has the IDW comic (I mean in the comic) mentioned two worlds or humans at all? 20 issues in so the world building should be done right?

    Background NPCs in hub worlds which haven't been seen since. Post-Unleashed we get bare minimum of just Sonic and co with either a map screen (Colors, Lost World, Forces) or a single barebones hub (Generations). The difference in scale is obvious.
     
  20. Dark Sonic

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    @Laughingcow but like Forces had new npcs. Generations even, only Sonic, Tails, and Amy existed come Unleashed. And that game had human npcs. So if anything the other furries would have been over budget

    Also hub worlds and Sonic are never consistent. We've maybe had 3 or 4 over almost 30 years?