Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Black Squirrel, Apr 10, 2018.
Very well done - I just wish there was a way to show (textured) 3D models on the wiki.
Really amazing work you've done there! I really think its pretty amazing that someone actually took the time to look at this game so in depth and than build the level maps.
I've got a bit of a question tho... Wondering, were there any extra hidden treats like unused models or textures found in the data?
Well the game has no models at all, and I think any unused textures would have been found by the people who wrote the TCRF article.
There are five unused maps for the "Ring Hunt" minigame (H_0, H_1, H_2, H_3, H_4). They are missing the .blk files, so I excluded them from my original image set, but using the .blk files for the used maps seems to work so I included those with the .obj set.
It'd be really awkward even if you could, because the maps are completely enclosed with a floor and ceiling, and I did not optimize them very much at all (the maps are 128x128, and I've made each tile have its own mesh for the floor, ceiling, and any walls).
I uploaded the special stage maps from the 510 and 0.51 builds of Sonic CD onto the wiki, since I had them laying around, and placed them in the comparison pages.
Probably gonna end up making my own renders of the final maps to make them consistent with these.
Any chance Sonic 1 and 2 16-bit's maps could have some additional work done? Two things come to mind:
The ending cutscene for Sonic 1 has its own foreground data, some of which is included with Green Hill Zone's.
For both games, there are differences in level layouts between REV00 and REV01, be it chunk definitions, chunk layouts, or object placement. Only Labyrinth Zone - Act 1 seems to be accounted for, though.
Uploaded new renders for the 510, 0.51, and final special stage maps, and uploaded maps for the 712 special stages. Set up the 712 comparison page, too.
The release of MainMemory's Sonic Advance trilogy projects for TilEd means we now have raw map rips of all three of the Sonic Advance games:
This has pushed us closer to having full sets for these games, though some things are missing, such as raw map rips of the Single Pak VS. levels (the Advance 2 project can load it, but the graphics are corrupted). We also don't have full object layouts for Advance 1, and I'm still on the fence about mirroring TerraEsperZ's rips from The Sonic Central and VGMaps.com. Still, with the raw maps for Advance 2 and 3 we could have better quality maps than the ones by G.E.R.
Objects are likely coming, though I can't promise fully accurate sprites without making a dedicated editor.
I noticed that the map for Tidal Plant 2 was cut off at the bottom and hand edited to put the missing part back in. I recreated the full map using Aspect Edit but wanted to canvass opinion before changing it. Rolken's original maps have little numbers on them which are item/sprite locations, and Aspect Edit maps don't have this. Also the hand fixed version includes labels for some of the objects, that would also be lost by replacing it.
I've created 3 versions of the map, one with the standard palette, one with the underwater palette, and one where I've superimposed the two together. The water level does seem to fluctuate by a pixel or two depending on where you enter it, so I'm not sure that there actually is a 'correct' waterline, so this is a hand edit and it might be preferred to just keep it single palette.
What do you guys think?
I added a Master System section to the Sonic Chaos maps page. Now you too can ponder why MGHZ3 is really quite different in great detail. I also did the 'overlay the water palette' thing I mentioned above for Aqua Planet, I prefer it to just having everything using the dry land palette which looks a bit off.
Sonic Chaos/Maps - Sonic Retro
That’s strange. I wonder why that is. There was not a big gap between releases so it’s not like the devs were reflecting on their work and wanted to tighten something up.
Most of the act 3s had a small overhaul where you have to work a bit harder in the GG version to get rings to fight the boss. Not much harder, given the general lack of difficulty all around, but a little bit harder! MGHZ is the only one to have a proper overhaul though.
I also managed to load up the intro 'level' which (assuming I didn't butcher it when working out the ROM offsets to feed into Aspect Edit) has a nice field of flowers beyond the bit you actually see in game. *WILD CONJECTURE ALERT* could use that for a more interesting ending than the black screen / big emerald we ended up with? :D I have nothing to base that on other than it seems quite deliberate to put those flowers there.
Interesting. The GG/MS games are such a mystery to me. I had a GG and Chaos as a kid but even with how easy it is, I was never able to clear it. I do remember another kid seeing it once and overhearing him say, "Mummy, mummy! That screen lights up so you can play it after you've been tucked into bed!" Funny memory. This was probably around 2000 (my dad got me the Majesco re-release to feed my Sonic addiction), so most of my peers had the GBC and we were too young for the OG release.
I would say any changes would be to accommodate the Game Gear's smaller screen resolution but... I'm not sure the changes do?
That's assuming of course the Master System version was the lead platform... which it might not have been. This seems to have been the case in Sonics 1 and 2, but I don't know about Chaos (and obviously Triple Trouble was Game Gear only).
Thumbs-up from me. The best version you'll want for the complete map is the superimposed palettes version to indicate where the water/dry areas are (LZ3 and LBZ2 are two are good examples). At the moment, the best thing one can do with putting in the objects is to do them by hand using the numbers from Rolken's and Noah's maps as a guide (it's what I attempted to do with the 05-17 GG prototype of Sonic Chaos).
Like with the 16-bit maps, it would be great to have full version with objects, and objectless "raw" versions of the map data. Another thing to note about Chaos is that according to TCRF, the Japanese Game Gear version uses a combination of the Master System and western Game Gear versions' Act 3 layouts including its own altered layouts, so you would want to look into those layouts too.
Also this map and this one are also cut off at the bottom.
Am I correct in understanding that Game Gear cartridges usually have both regional variants on them, which are then detected by the region of the Game Gear hardware? Is that the case here, with the layout changing depending on the region of the Game Gear hardware? Or does the layout change depend upon whether you're using a western Sonic Chaos cart vs a Japanese Sonic & Tails cart?
Thanks @BSonirachi I've decided to take on Sonic Chaos SMS as a bit of an experiment as to how long this takes. I've hacked up Rolken's map generation script to basically just spit out all of the item locations, with the coordinates translated from hex roughly to pixel coordinates, then went ahead and worked out what they all do. This was easy for a simple game like this one, with the exception that there are far too many subtypes for the little platforms!
Aqua Planet's platforms and hidden springs have different IDs to the rest of the zones even though they seemingly do the same thing.
There's an out of bounds beetle badnik in GPZ1
Unfortunately, my coordinate conversion isn't quite right so I can't automate pasting in the pictures, they'll need to be aligned manually for now. At least Sonic Retro have saved me the trouble of ripping the common sprites!
I've attached the list if anyone is curious. The layout is Object ID, X coord (in decimal), Y coord (in decimal), then a bunch of flags, the penultimate byte is the sub type.
In Sonic Chaos' case, the Japanese and Western versions are entirely separate ROMs. Their build dates are different, with the Japanese version being built almost a week after the western version, so Aspect had a bit of extra time to change a few things for Japan.
Western GG version:
GG SONIC¥CHAOS < Ver1.00 > 1993/09/01 @SEGA/Aspect Co.,Ltd
Japanese GG version:
GG SONIC & TAILS < Ver1.01 > 1993/09/07 @SEGA/Aspect Co.,Ltd
The out-of-bounds Badnik would be a good addition for the hidden content page - we've got such sections for both the 8-bit and 16-bit versions Sonic 1 after all.
Just added the Japan version of THZ3 to the Sonic Chaos page. You can see quite clearly what they've done, as I mentioned above here https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?threads/i-want-your-maps.37946/page-9#post-1031922. Sonic Chaos GG modified all the Act 3s to remove most of the rings, meaning you had to accomplish a small challenge to bring rings to the boss fight. Sonic & Tails Japan puts the original generous Master System ring layouts back in, which makes it easier.
Sonic Chaos/Maps - Sonic Retro
Sleeping Egg 3 is even more generous in GG Japan than it is in SMS, there's an extra 10 ring monitor if you ignore the pogo stick and just run right for a little bit.
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