I want your maps

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Black Squirrel, Apr 10, 2018.

  1. BSonirachi

    BSonirachi

    Opa-Opa takes flight! Wiki Sysop
    https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(8-bit)/Maps

    Sonic 1 Game Gear is done, which took quite a bit of time to do since Sonic Extractor 8-bit got all the palettes wrong and had to go about correcting them to what the game actually uses (Labyrinth Zone was the worst to deal with). While the default positions were all extracted from internal data, corrections had to be made to show the approximate object positions as seen in-game (i.e. what the player should be expecting to see in normal play). One very interesting thing I learned through this is how the tool showed a Spikes Badnik placed a little underneath the floor in Bridge Zone Act 2:

    [​IMG]

    At first I thought the tool was joshing me as the Badnik never appears in normal play, until I discovered that it DOES exist! Because of its weird placement, the Badnik ends up falling beneath the level boundaries, and the only way it can be seen is by using an emulator to display the areas outside the Game Gear's screen limitations, where the poor thing can be seen milling about in the garbled void:

    [​IMG]

    I've got this documented over on this page: https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(8-bit)/Hidden_content#Misplaced_objects

    I suppose you can show what you've done, and if you want to, you could make better maps for Mania Plus to replace what's there, which also brings me to the next thing I want to share:

    https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Retro:Todo/Maps

    A checklist of what maps are wanted, what maps need improvements, and which games could do with chunk/block rips.
     
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  2. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    Which is the size of the "blank sheet" for the maps in other classic games? It's essentially what I wanted to know when I started my calculations, I wanted to know the standard size of the maps in each game to take them into account when designing my own maps.

    Sorry, as I said on an earlier post, I can't do maps. The data I've gathered doesn't seem to be useful either after reading what MainMemory said (btw, after converting her numbers, we get a maximum map size of 128x16 blocks in S2).
     
  3. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    S1 and S3K have variable map sizes. S1's RAM buffer for the layout ends up being 64x8 chunks, which given the 256x256 chunk size, ends up at the exact same pixel size as S2, 16384x2048. S3K is fully dynamic, being able to trade off between height and width, with a maximum possible height of 32 chunks = 4096 pixels. All this information is available on the wiki.
     
  4. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    If it's on each game page, I must have missed it since I haven't checked those pages out thoroughly (in other words, it's my fault). I read the page about block mappings in sega retro and looked around on the SCHG, but I didn't find this specific info there.

    I sort of guessed the dynamic nature of S3K maps since sizes vary so wildly, but I get it goes to a maximum of 4096 blocks since CNZ2, the largest map in that game, has 3800, plus 4096 is the exact double of the max size of prior games. Well, I'll have to check about this for SCD, Chaotix and Mania: SCD seems to keep the values from S1, and Chaotix maps seem dynamic too but its maps aren't bigger than those of S2; then we have Mania, where maps are so big and I'm not sure I can apply the same logic since it was made for modern tech.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021 at 7:06 PM
  5. BSonirachi

    BSonirachi

    Opa-Opa takes flight! Wiki Sysop
    Because I don't really have anything better to do besides finish characters I've been working on for SRB2Kart, I thought I'd try my hand at mapping Miles "Tails" Prower in The Floor is Lava a.k.a. Tails' Skypatrol of all games, just so we won't have to worry about that game, plus there's currently no maps for it on sites like VGMaps.com and SMS Power. So far, I have done the entirety of the first level, the Training Area:

    TailsSkypatrol GG Map TrainingArea.png
    I also intend to make "raw" maps which do not feature objects (and has the Bonmetals at their default state), but like with all other 8-bit Sonic games some of the objects are treated as part of the map layout, so it's a bit of an awkward situation. Specifically, these objects would be the Crystals, Poles, Bars, Daruma Blocks, moving spike walls, Kurukuru Panels and technically the Bonmetals (though they're inactive when they are first loaded), so I'm not sure whether they should be part of the "raw" map or not:

    TailsSkypatrol GG Map TrainingArea raw.png

    On a side note, I was messaged by TheDaguar on Twitter with map rips he made for the 821 prototype of Sonic Blast that he made back in 2012. They're all well-done apart from missing object layouts that aren't rings, and I was hoping they would have objects so we can distingush anything that might have changed for the final, but I can still upload what he's given me as it can't hurt to have the raw maps too.
     
  6. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    It's in the Level Editing page for each game, there's a section about the level layout.
     
  7. BSonirachi

    BSonirachi

    Opa-Opa takes flight! Wiki Sysop
    https://info.sonicretro.org/Tails'_Skypatrol/Maps

    For what it's worth, full maps with objects are done for this weird spinoff game, but currently no "raw" or object-only maps. Starting from Ruin Wood, there are some enemies which are treated as part of the background rather than sprites, particularly the Minokichis, Capture Berries and Carronades. Should I treat these, as well as anything moving or destructible that are treated as background, as objects that can be removed from the "raw" maps?
     
  8. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    I feel like it would easier if we could toggle things on maps almost.

    Then again I've always been the "Get crazy" type and think we should have everything of every type we possibly can.

    I mean, keeping the things that are treated as backgrounds would be the most authentic thing to do but we would want the maps without them as well.

    Why do things always have to be complicated?