I propose we start calling the Sonic 3 music by different terms

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blastfrog, Jun 17, 2022.

  1. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

    See ya starside. Member
    So I'm seeing a lot of terms being flung around like "original", "Genesis/Mega Drive", "PC", "prototype", "final" and so on. I feel that these terms are far too vague. Some people mean the Sega Sound Team tracks when they say original, others mean the MJ team tracks. Genesis is a bit of a misnomer, because the prototype is also on Genesis. Prototype isn't entirely the best term to use to refer to the tracks in general, because the PC versions (there are two of them, FM and GM) are very different. And now Jun has created all new versions of the Sega Sound Team tracks (that we haven't heard yet, but still).

    For the sake of clarity, I think we should drop all of these terms when talking about the soundtracks in general and only use them to refer to very specific versions. Prototype should refer to the S3A prototype specifically and not be used generically to describe the Sega Sound Team tracks, and likewise PC should be used to refer specifically to the Sonic and Knuckles Collection versions. Drop vague stuff like "original" entirely, either that or have it specifically refer to the Sega Sound Team tracks.

    For general terms, I suggest we call them Sega Sound Team (SST) and Michael Jackson team (MJT) instead. There is far too much confusion in these music discussions because everyone seems to have their own personal definitions. Let's put an end to that.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  2. Ben2k9

    Ben2k9

    We stand to Fight Oldbie
    1,581
    17
    18
    Manchester, UK
    none at the mo
    "MJ Soundtrack" and "Proto/PC Soundtrack" or "Sega Soundtrack" would be quite clear if you ask me.
     
  3. Turbohog

    Turbohog

    Member
    806
    70
    28
    I have literally never been confused by any of the terms people use.
     
    • Agree Agree x 12
    • Like Like x 4
    • List
  4. Palas

    Palas

    Don't lose your temper so quickly. Member
    419
    146
    43
    Well we can always use "the great ones" and "the unvelievably lukewarm ones" and everyone will know what you're talking about.
     
  5. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

    See ya starside. Member
    Maybe you haven't, but I've seen a few people get mixed up in the Origins thread.

    Yeah, the great ones are the SST tracks and the unbelievably lukewarm ones are the MJ tracks. Well, at least in my opinion. :) In all seriousness, that's far too subjective.
     
  6. Palas

    Palas

    Don't lose your temper so quickly. Member
    419
    146
    43
    I jest, but in all seriousness I can't imagine anyone thinking of the SST tracks when you say "Genesis". The SST tracks were never officially released for Genesis, but were for PC. And while there may be discussions in which the technical aspects are important, you can generally use PC and Prototype interchangeably.

    I do think SST and MJT (or even just MJ even though it's not technically correct etc etc) are good names for general purposes though.
     
  7. Ben2k9

    Ben2k9

    We stand to Fight Oldbie
    1,581
    17
    18
    Manchester, UK
    none at the mo
    I imagine when Origins comes out, it will probably supersede other naming conventions as it will have the defacto finalised proto/pc music.
     
  8. Yash

    Yash

    CHOCOLATE! Member
    687
    249
    43
    Just wait until the collection releases and normies figure out the music’s been swapped out. In an insular community like this - where many of us were expecting music replacements for happen - that’s one thing, I’m just thinking about the not-super-diehards inevitably screaming about how Sega RUINED the game by replacing Michael Jackson’s music.
     
  9. JaxTH

    JaxTH

    Pudding Deity Oldbie
    9,556
    278
    63
    Los Angeles
    Jack shit.
    It's fairly obvious.

    Original Music = The music the final game shipped with back in 1994.

    Proto Music = 1993 music from the proto

    Depending on what Origins does...

    Origin Music = The music used in Origins

    Seems fairly obvious to me.
     
  10. _Sidle

    _Sidle

    Member
    188
    135
    43
    - "Original" is ambiguous, as it can mean the original MD release tracks, or the original tracks that got replaced for the final MD build. Never ever use this if you can help it.

    - "Genesis/Megadrive Final" and "PC" are crystal clear, as that's how each set of tracks were introduced to the public. "Prototype" also works interchangeably for "PC" just fine, minus the edge case when you're talking about the revision differences between the two, but that's easy to follow since you'd likely be using both terms.

    - "MJ Team" and "Sega Sound Team" are also crystal clear, as that's who made them.

    "PC" is less to type, but "Proto" flows better when spoken/written, so I lean towards slightly preferring "Proto" and "MD Final" overall.
     
  11. JaxTH

    JaxTH

    Pudding Deity Oldbie
    9,556
    278
    63
    Los Angeles
    Jack shit.
    No, it isn't. It would only be that way if someone deliberately makes it so.
     
  12. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

    Oldbie
    582
    316
    63
    "Origins" and "Original" are too similar.

    Just say Genesis, Proto, Origins... and maybe S&K PC for the midis. Maybe.
     
  13. JaxTH

    JaxTH

    Pudding Deity Oldbie
    9,556
    278
    63
    Los Angeles
    Jack shit.
    But what about the non-Americans who say Mega Drive? :V
     
  14. _Sidle

    _Sidle

    Member
    188
    135
    43
    ???
    Original can mean "this was created first" (Proto) as well as "this was presented to us first" (MD Final). Both of those are perfectly valid descriptors, right?
    I don't know how to make my point any clearer than that, sorry ;;
     
  15. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    shaving is boring Wiki Sysop
    6,968
    1,025
    93
    Northumberland, UK
    hey wiki you're so fine
    From a wiki perspective: prototype, final, S&KC (FM/GM), Origins.

    Colloquially I tend to call the final tracks in Sonic 3 (that weren't in the prototype) "MJ tracks" or something of that nature, but then you risk getting into fights about which specific bits Michael Jackson had a hand in and it gets messy and stupid. But whatever, fight me.


    You can retire the term "original soundtrack" though, because as I said in the other topic, there might have been two. Maybe more. And then it gets into one of those Dust Hill Zone scenarios where we're all getting tribal and throwing non-evidence around.

    p.s. the fact people are getting confused means that yes, the term probably is ambiguous ;)
     
  16. Ben2k9

    Ben2k9

    We stand to Fight Oldbie
    1,581
    17
    18
    Manchester, UK
    none at the mo
    well he DEFINITELY had a hand in carnival night zone and launch base zone, CNZ being the obvious Jam sample and the glass smash sound is a direct sample from In the Closet which also appears in LBZ. It was confirmed by Brad Buxer that him and Michael wrote Stranger In Moscow based on the chords from the Credits theme. The drum sample in the miniboss theme/knuckles theme reappeared years later in Blood on the Dance Floor so really the only ones he probably didnt contribute to were Ice Cap Zone and the Competition Menu.
     
  17. Palas

    Palas

    Don't lose your temper so quickly. Member
    419
    146
    43
    Well, then you'll be able to use PC, Prototype and Origins interchangeably, unless the songs change too much.
     
  18. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

    Oldbie
    582
    316
    63
    I know you were half joking, but Gen/MD would also be a good compromise.
     
  19. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    I think the SST and the MJST approaches is the best considering it's based on facts given by how the game and its music have been credited, and how different is each version of the SST tracks. "Original", "intended", "replacement tracks" and similar terms are questionable terms thus their meaning can change from one person to another since we lack proof of when or what for each one entered the development process.
     
  20. Considering that "original" is how Katie first described the proto tracks when announcing them, I'm gonna have to agree that it's actually pretty ambiguous.

    "Prototype" and "release"/"final" are what I use, personally.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
    • List