Humans in Mobius besides Robotnik

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by VB.NET, Oct 1, 2010.

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  1. Frozen Nitrogen

    Frozen Nitrogen

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    <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/File:Stt_gg_us_manual_00_01.jpg" target="_blank">Sonic Triple Trouble takes place on Mobius.</a>

    I'll try and itemise the alternate-canonical settings I remember:

    <ul><li>Fleetway Sonic The Comic has Mobius as a seperate planet entirely, existing many light years away from Earth. Kintobor originally came there in his personal spaceship before turning into Robotnik. Amy Rose actually travels to Earth in one story (and meets Tony Blair, lulz). STC never had any humans except Robotnik, given that it was cancelled shortly after SA1's release.</li><li>OVA was set on bizarro-world "Planet Freedom"... which actually looked to be a far-future post-apocalyptic Earth, as Sonic lived in a crashed overgrown 747, and Robotropolis was built next door to the ruined, flooded ruins of what seems to be New York. Other humans living in crystalline hover-car future cities in the sky, although their leader appears to be the President of Bolivia.</li><li>Archie / SATAM has "Mobius" explicitly as a far-future post-apocalyptic Earth.</li></ul>

    Before SA1 I never considered there to be any humans besides Robotnik in Sonic's world. I still recall making a "What. The. Fuck." face on seeing the moonwalking police in Station Square for the first time. Don't consider them to have been implied before SA1; as far as I was concerned, the ancient West Side Island civilizations were obviously animal ones, no question.
     
  2. Endri

    Endri

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    <!--quoteo(post=512854:date=Oct 1 2010, 10:50 PM:name=Frozen Nitrogen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frozen Nitrogen @ Oct 1 2010, 10:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=512854">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/File:Stt_gg_us_manual_00_01.jpg" target="_blank">Sonic Triple Trouble takes place on Mobius.</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Then again, for all that I know, most of the U.S. manuals states that the games takes place on Mobius, no?

    The only thing I know is that Sonic 1, 2 (8-bit), Chaos, Triple Trouble and Tails' Adventures takes place on South Island; Sonic 2 (16-bit) takes places on Westside Island; Sonic 3 & Knuckles takes places on Floating Island (I hate the post Adventure canon Angel Island; Angel Island is supposed to be a location in the island, not it's name); and Sonic 3D Blast takes place on Flickies' Island.

    Oh no, what about Eastside and North Islands?!
     
  3. 0r4ng3

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    I always thought humans were part of Sonic's world and that it was indeed Earth. I played the classics on the Mega Drive, but once Jam was released to the Saturn, I shifted to that console. In Jam the Screensaver gallery + Man of the Year short + Sonic OVA promo (Sara shows up) all had humans on them and since I loved those, I spent a fair amount of time looking at them. Thanks to that OVA promo, it wasn't so weird that Sonic suddenly could talk either. I didn't had much contact with the cartoons or comics previously to playing Adventure (I don't even know if they aired here, Underground did though). I may have watched AOSTH or SatAM but I can't remember much, as my memory sucks a lot. It's very, very vague, but I remember Sonic and many colours while watching TV, so if I had to take a guess, it was probably AOSTH but it could be some commercial.

    Now that I look back and purely from those games' viewpoint, it makes sense that humans existed and it was Earth. Eggman was a human and he had to come out of somewhere. There were buildings in Star Light and in the background of Chemical Plant. Since the only major animals featured are Sonic, Tails and Knuckles (and Amy), it makes sense that animal and human NPCs were somewhere else and didn't show up because they were unrelated to the story. Makes more sense than thinking it was an alien planet filled with animals and Eggman showed up there for... no logic reason at all. Or simply have no opinion on the matter, since it wasn't important to the story.

    However, anyone that watched the spinoffs is another story. AOSTH had a fair number of humans, so it wouldn't be strange to have them on SA. Anyone that watched SatAM/Archie or STC would be heavily biased towards Mobius without humans before SA came out, therefore finding it outlandish. However, maybe a distracted viewer wouldn't notice. I have a friend that mistook Mobius as a city and thought it was all in Earth as well.

    Anyway people don't like change. Especially if they're emotionally invested in what was there before the change.
     
  4. Jen

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    When I was a kid, I never actually considered humans being a part of Sonic's world - I always imagined it was how it is in Sonic the Comic, with animal characters everywhere. When I saw the Man of the Year cartoon in Sonic Jam for the first time though, I never found it strange that there were humans, I just figured it was a different interpretation of the Sonic series (in much the same way as AoStH and SatAM are different). I must admit it was odd to see humans in the games for the first time when I played Sonic Adventure, it immediately made the humans canon to the games which was a bit weird at first - especially given how much the style of the people clashes with the style of the Sonic characters, although this is much worse in 06. I think Unleashed got it right, making the humans look more "cartoony" and thereby making them fit in with the Sonic characters.

    Nowadays, I interpret it as being that humans only inhabit certain areas of the planet - places like Green Hill Zone are inhabited by animals, places like Station Square are inhabited by humans.
     
  5. SpeedStarTMQ

    SpeedStarTMQ

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    <!--quoteo(post=512997:date=Oct 2 2010, 09:22 AM:name=Jen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jen @ Oct 2 2010, 09:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=512997">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nowadays, I interpret it as being that humans only inhabit certain areas of the planet - places like Green Hill Zone are inhabited by animals, places like Station Square are inhabited by humans.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Basically this.

    Even in Sonic Chronicles, Green Hill Zone was void of much human life. I think there were some tourists and like, a fisherman or something, but apart from that South Island didn't have much else, just some ruins of Eggman's old eggpod and loads of hills and bridges. Anyway, someone must have built the bridges, and the animals that Sonic saves are always helpless and portrayed as more like real life animals; unable to build things. They probably just eat and sleep, and not much inbetween jumping around in cute groups. Anthromorphic characters usually have more human abilities. People like Sonic and Tails just kick arse.
     
  6. Frozen Nitrogen

    Frozen Nitrogen

    Wouldn't the door have been easier? Wiki Sysop
    <!--quoteo(post=512997:date=Oct 2 2010, 03:22 PM:name=Jen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jen @ Oct 2 2010, 03:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=512997">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nowadays, I interpret it as being that humans only inhabit certain areas of the planet - places like Green Hill Zone are inhabited by animals, places like Station Square are inhabited by humans.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think it was a familiarity with Fleetway that convinced me too, in the early days, that there weren't any humans knocking about. Still, now that there clearly ARE, I've gone with this interpretation too. Sonic's world - be it alterni-Earth, Planet Freedom, or Mobius - isn't as human-populated as ours, and there's vast tracts of wilderness where Man has still never set foot.

    To dregde up one of my analogies from the past, Sonic's world is more like this:
    [​IMG]

    Than this:
    [​IMG]
     
  7. 0r4ng3

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    To be fair to our Earth, there's still vast regions where humans have close to no presence: Antártica, most of interior Africa, many mountain regions of South America, many interior regions of China and of course, most of Russian north territory, I suppose interior regions of Australia, Greenland, dozens of islands in the Pacific and some in the Atlantic.
     
  8. <!--quoteo(post=512854:date=Oct 1 2010, 08:50 PM:name=Frozen Nitrogen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frozen Nitrogen @ Oct 1 2010, 08:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=512854">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[*]Archie / SATAM has "Mobius" explicitly as a far-future post-apocalyptic Earth.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I've always thought of Mobius along those lines when I was a kid. The ghosts in Sandopolis always looked like dog-ghosts, so I figured the there existed ancient dog and cat races that were like our Egypians and Incans. They went extinct as well, and it made sense to me since we pushed those two species evolutionary, they would be the first to walk/talk.

    I wonder if those ghosts will run away if you turn on a vacuum cleaner as well...
     
  9. Frozen Nitrogen

    Frozen Nitrogen

    Wouldn't the door have been easier? Wiki Sysop
    <!--quoteo(post=513146:date=Oct 3 2010, 01:47 AM:name=mmax121)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mmax121 @ Oct 3 2010, 01:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=513146">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wonder if those ghosts will run away if you turn on a vacuum cleaner as well...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The ghosts in <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/Cryptic_Castle" target="_blank">Cryptic Castle</a> aren't susceptible to the Vacuum Egg, so probably not. :specialed:
     
  10. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    <!--quoteo(post=512652:date=Oct 1 2010, 10:26 AM:name=SpeedStarTMQ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpeedStarTMQ @ Oct 1 2010, 10:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=512652">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, there's not really a pre or post Adventure canon at all. Canon was different in all regions, and the canon was based around the Sonic games as an interpretation, rather than having any sort of real basis.

    The concept art for Sonic showed a blonde human girl in a red dress as his love interest, and if I'm not mistaken, in Japan, there were some manga's and stuff including humans. The fact that there were man-made objects and stuff, like cones, lights, buildings etc. in the games only furthered the notion that humans were a part of the Sonic universe, and if it weren't for the silly cartoons and comics aimed at younger audiences and instead more of a focus on just the basic Sonic stuff that we as a player could already see, then the final inclusion of humans into the 'proper' Sonic canon would have been easier to accept. Instead we as consumers/players have had to throw all our previous misconceptions out the window regarding fluffy friends like Sally and Porker Lewis.

    Sonic X was pretty good though, in the fact that it seemed to continue the trend of Sonic cartoons, by having Sonic come from an animal world, into a human inhabited one. A nice piece of retro fan service.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ironically Sonic X if anything made it more blatant how anime style humans and cartoony anthros look essentially like they are from two separate worlds.

    Even more ironic is how Porker and Sally were gradually evolved to look less and less animal like if you get my drift. The only thing separating them from Marvel style humans in the end was a cartoony head (Porker even had the same size comparison, despite being the same tiny sized animal in his initial appearance). I could argue these kind of designs fit even less with the Sonic cast than the humans. It's nothing to do with species, the style and design is what makes them fit.
     
  11. Clutch

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    Maybe normal humans in the old games were like the adults in Peanuts: They existed and other characters were aware of them, but they remained unseen most of the time because their designs jarred too much with the established world and the presence of them wouldn't have added much to the narrative.
     
  12. MastaSys

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    <!--quoteo(post=513188:date=Oct 3 2010, 03:42 AM:name=Clutch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clutch @ Oct 3 2010, 03:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=513188">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe normal humans in the old games were like the adults in Peanuts: They existed and other characters were aware of them, but they remained unseen most of the time because their designs jarred too much with the established world and the presence of them wouldn't have added much to the narrative.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This. :eng101:

    This Hypothesis is the one that seems right for the game canon(s), for me.
     
  13. The Moogs

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    the sonic games take place on a world covered in endless water, where mankind is forced to eek out a living on the small patches that remain above the sea.
     
  14. Namo

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    <!--quoteo(post=513296:date=Oct 3 2010, 05:56 AM:name=Commadoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Commadoo @ Oct 3 2010, 05:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=513296">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the sonic games take place on a world covered in endless water, where mankind is forced to eek out a living on the small patches that remain above the sea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The people of this world rely on ancient technology driven by chaos emeralds, a powerful energy source.
     
  15. The Moogs

    The Moogs

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    These chaos emeralds lie in ancient ruins, underground the floating island, and are sought out by explorers called 'Hedgehogs'...
     
  16. Namo

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    These brave animals are the sole source of chaos energy, which has become a corner stone of the Mobian civilizations.
     
  17. But then it turns out there's Hyrule hidden underwater.

    <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>C-C-C-Combo Breaker!</span>
     
  18. Namo

    Namo

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    <!--quoteo(post=513381:date=Oct 3 2010, 01:24 PM:name=K2J)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (K2J @ Oct 3 2010, 01:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=513381">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But then it turns out there's Hyrule hidden underwater.

    <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>C-C-C-Combo Breaker!</span><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Wh... why would you do that? :(
     
  19. DigitalDuck

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    <!--quoteo(post=513383:date=Oct 3 2010, 06:34 PM:name=Namo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namo @ Oct 3 2010, 06:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=513383">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wh... why would you do that? :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I was honestly just waiting for one more post before I was going to do exactly the same thing.
     
  20. Overlord

    Overlord

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    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sonic X was pretty good though, in the fact that it seemed to continue the trend of Sonic cartoons, by having Sonic come from an animal world, into a human inhabited one. A nice piece of retro fan service.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Funny you should say that really - to me, Sonic X tied up the whole thing rather nicely in that you have Sonic's world (never named explicity, but we'll call it Mobius here for sake of clarity and because it's shorter to type), and Chris's, which is stated specifically to be Earth. In episode 1, Sonic's group leaves Mobius via the Chaos Control accident, have various adventures on Earth (we see SA1 and 2 on screen, as well as a narrative of Battle), and then in episode 52 head back to Mobius again.

    It ties everything up in that you can call everything pre-SA1 taking place on Mobius (which notably had no humans bar Robotnik in, and I always went with Fleetway on this in that he crashed there anyway. The portal link could be time as well as space quite easily IE Mobius could be CENTURIES ahead of Earth), everything with humans in taking place on Earth, and then anything after that taking place after they got back. =P
     
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