How would you remake Sonic Adventure for today?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Sonic5993, Nov 27, 2020.

  1. Given the discussions surrounding Sonic Adventure lately, and a potential remake, I think it's important for us to discuss what exactly would we want if such a thing came to past. The biggest hurdle in remaking a game is, preserving the spirit of the original but actually addressing the perceived issues for a modern audience. You have games like the Pokemon remakes that largely stay true to the original outside of updating the battle system to what the contemporary generation is doing, but then you have remakes like Final Fantasy VII, which is straight up an alternate continuity to the original to justify all of the changes.

    For my part, the problems I generally have with Sonic Adventure is it's poor presentation, as well as the half measures implemented for the extra content (i.e. anyone that's not Sonic :V). Off the top of my head, the only things I can think to change are.

    > Big has got to go; you can make him optional, demote him to meme status like in SA2, or whatever, but he cannot stay.
    > Either give Tails a new objective in levels, or design areas where you can better utilize his abilities; this one is probably the hardest as you have to balance between his flight either breaking levels or nerfing it to the point of uselessness.
    > Give more levels to the extra scenarios, as they feel pretty half baked...at least for Tails and Knuckles.


    But how would you guys go about it?
     
  2. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

    bobs over baghdad Member
    4,845
    14
    18
    Winnipeg, MB
    making cool music no one gives a shit about
    The only Sonic Adventure remake I want is a true director's cut, a full-scale reimagining that pushes modern hardware to it's limits and gives us beta Windy Valley tier level design in every level. If we get a remake and it's scaled 1:1 with the original I'm gonna roll my eyes so hard they spindash out of my skull.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  3. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

    Member
    914
    154
    43
    Virginia, USA
    Paying off student loans
    I'm gonna cheat and say I wouldn't: I would do a budget-price proof-of-concept that only features Sonic as playable, to see if there's any point in revisiting the Adventure era at all.

    Sonic APOCalypse (for Adventure Proof-Of-Concept)

    - Use Adventure 1 gameplay as a base.
    - Spindash is NOT spammable. It needs a bit of charge time, and if you're moving at anything more than a crawl, pressing B just makes you curl up.
    - Actual rolling physics. If Mario Odyssey can do it, Sonic can do it.
    - Steering while rolling is a bit less tight. He shouldn't be able to turn as well while rolling as while running.
    - Homing attack is changed to only steer Sonic while preserving his existing momentum. No more mindless button-mashing to kill everything, but with a running start you could still have homing attack chains. Also, pressing B while rolling will do a "ground homing attack" that, again, just steers Sonic into an enemy at his existing speed.
    - Debating whether I want to add in quick step, but either way camera control is moved to right control stick. Then if I did decide to add it, L and R are freed up.
    - Light Dash works as in Adventure 2, but uses X. Also any mandatory-for-level-progression Light Dash paths have phantoms Ring lines like in Shadow, so that the Magnet Shield won't fuck you over.
    - As little automation as possible. Rolling physics should eliminate the need for automated ramps, and loops would have guardrails to prevent running off them.

    Don't really have any ideas for level design or plot, but there's my brain vomit. Enjoy?
     
  4. Gnidel

    Gnidel

    Member
    9
    2
    3
    First of all, I wouldn't. I think it's a really horrible idea. Sonic Adventure is in a weird uncanny valley for remakes, because it's a good but extremely flawed game, even on conceptual level. Making a faithful remake would preserve bad aspects, making unfaithful remake (like Final Fantasy VIIR) might ruin what made it so unique.

    There is also an issue of my voice acting. It's not that I absolutely need Ryan Drummond in every Sonic game ever, but I like that every Sonic's voice actor sounds progressively older. Older voice of Roger Craig Smith would just clash in my head. However I would be fine with Ben Schwartz because he sounds the youngest of Sonic's voice actors, and Sonic Adventure is the first dubbed game, so in this case it might work.

    I think better candidates for remakes are Sonic 06 and Sonic Chronicles. Remake of Sonic 06 would let Sega finally erase it from the timeline and Sonic Chronicles really deserves FF7R treatment because nearly everything about this game is crap except for the story, which could be a good base for Sonic open world game. If the idea would catch on, there would be a new formula for next games.

    But if I had to, I would do a remake and remaster in one package. One game mode (Original) would upgrade graphics and leave level design EXACTLY as it was, Crash N.Sane Trilogy style. Gameplay would also remain untouched except for minor details better tutorial for Big's fishing and camera control. Another gameplay mode (New) would give new level designs and redubbed cutscenes, resulting in basically a new game using the same assets and physics. Beta Windy Valled and playable Eggman and Tikal would be DLC, just because I'm greedy. Music stays untouched in both modes.

    Physics stay untouched except for buggy messes like "gravity" in Sky Deck and snake in Lost World. Because of this, building the game on top of Lost World/Forces would be a good idea. In New mode Big's gameplay is completely redone into a stylish action game. It could even reuse code for werehog, fishing rod could replace stretchy arms. Other gameplay styles would remain the same, but get more polish with better camera control. Not physics, they are great as they were and to not massacre them like mechs in SA2. They would be the most faithful recreation possible. In New style all bosses would get completely different strategies and if they repeat between characters, they get new moveset.
     
  5. BadBehavior

    BadBehavior

    Member
    146
    37
    28
    They could turn all the non-sonic playable characters into Wisps, and I'd be fine with that if they just kept Sonic's controls and general feel. It feels so right in Adventure 1, it's floaty enough to make platforming enjoyable, and it'd be a breath of fresh air after how stiff the Boost games have been.

    Other stuff i'd like to see:
    restore the original Windy Valley. Maybe as a bonus level, if not an outright replacement for the original.
    If this is Adventure 1, then retroactively add Shadow as a playable character. He basically plays identical to Sonic anyway. If zero budget, zero time Forces could do it, then theres no reason this hypothetical Adventure remake couldn't.

    thats all I can think of off the top of my head.
     
  6. This sounds extremely overly ambitious, even for a game that's already overly ambitious to begin with. I understand wanting to preserve the original and actually change it for modern audiences, but you can't have your cake and eat it too, because that has even more potential for it faltering.

    I feel like the devs would have to make a conscious decision on what's more important and stick to it. Trying to shoot for everyone at once is just going to fail like Forces.
     
  7. Josh

    Josh

    Oldbie
    1,731
    351
    63
    USA
    How would *I* do it? If it's just about my preferences and I can do whatever I want, I can think of two directions:

    [​IMG]
    IDEA ONE: I'd commission an official, completed version of Sonic Adventure Generations. Completely remake every level for boost gameplay, up to the standards of Sonic Generations' act 2s. For act 1s, I'd hire the Mania team to create 16-bit versions of each level in the Retro Engine.

    upload_2020-11-28_1-59-38.png
    IDEA TWO: Reimagine a Sonic Adventure where the design and aesthetic of the game stayed more in-line with the Genesis trilogy, and with this concept art in particular. Keep the same basic story, uncovering what became of Knuckles' people, the power behind the Master Emerald, and the origin of Angel Island. But unconstrained from the technical limitations of 1998, it's FINALLY time to build a 3D game that plays like the classics. Call it a Mania-universe version of the game we got in the 90s.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  8. Myles_Zadok

    Myles_Zadok

    IDK Member
    33
    8
    8
    This is largely why I feel a FF7 approach is the only way to go about a remake. Sonic Adventure had the burden of showing off everything the Dreamcast could do, but a remake wouldn't have that pressure. Because of that, a lot of things in SA1 seem unnecessary in a true remake. Why does Big need to be there? To show off the PS5's water effects? What about the Chao Garden? The Switch doesn't have a VMU.

    EDIT: I'm not saying the Chao Garden can't be in a remake, just that the original reason for it existing in the first place is gone. Editing before anyone gets mad at me.

    But a lot of people are going to say "Those things are an important part of Sonic Adventure! How could you cut them?" Because what is and isn't an important part of Sonic Adventure is subjective. Some people find the scene of Gamma dying to release the Flicky inside of it as essential to SA1, and while I think it is a cool reference to the classics (especially 3D Blast), to me, it isn't essential to the main story. That's why I can justify cutting Gamma and Amy (even though I enjoyed Gamma's campaign). What is important to me are Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles. By cutting the other 3 characters, more time and development can be put into their campaigns, so they could have more and better stages, controls that feel better (I would prefer Genesis physics in 3D, but they could just slightly tweak the original and I would be happy), and a refined story. Personally, I could do without the hub world, but Station Square and the Mystic Ruins are so iconic, they almost have to keep them. Maybe they could become stages instead? That'd be a fun way of revisiting them.

    This idea sounds (and looks) really cool to me, but some fans would riot if a remake of Sonic Adventure featured Classic Sonic instead of Modern Sonic. But marketing it as the same story, just set in the Maniaverse sounds like a really cool idea. I would legitimately be curious to see how the events of SA1 play out in that world.
     
  9. I don't think the Final Fantasy 7 remake approach would QUITE work, because the changes to that game are actually contextual to the narrative itself. Sonic isn't quite on that level, so the changes would feel very arbitrary unless the devs justified it somehow. Think the "reimagining" approach from the Resident Evil remakes is better; same basic premise and ideas, just under a different frame work like @Josh ideas.

    I feel like either one of those ideas are actually really good; either modernize the Boost gameplay for SA1, or go all in with the Classic Aesthetic.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  10. Gnidel

    Gnidel

    Member
    9
    2
    3
    Boost gameplay would cause similar revolt to classic aesthetics. But I like the idea of doing something similar to that mod of Generations. That mod connected multiple areas into one, giant level. So why not go even further and completely get rid of levels? Just make the game open world. Removing levels would remove direct comparisons with old levels and differences in gameplay style wouldn't be as jarring. If familiar landmarks would stay intact, then it would also satisfy fans of faithfulness and it would feel like an upgrade.
     
  11. BadBehavior

    BadBehavior

    Member
    146
    37
    28
    idk, I feel like just making it a boost game defeats the point of remaking it. Maybe if they made the boost some end-game powerup like the dash in Crash Bandicoot. Same for revisiting the classic aesthetic. Just sounds a few steps removed from Green-eyes-gate to me. Or maybe that's just the adventure fan in me talking.
     
  12. You can use this same logic if you're gonna try to keep things as much the same as possible; what's the point of remaking if you're not going to actually change anything?


    I feel like whenever this subject comes up about remakes, an important question never gets asked: Which demographic is the remake aiming for? Are they trying to entice newer players with the game? Or are they just "updating" it.
     
  13. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    852
    142
    43
    While I prefer the boost to the Adventure formula, and consider the classic MD series my favorite overall, the notion of remaking SA1 with the boost or the classic designs only makes me go "Why?" Why not make it an original game, instead of making SA1 not SA1? That sounds like the ultimate slap in the face for Adventure era fans to me. Would you make a Sonic 1 remake that replaced Classic Sonic with Modern Sonic and the classic physics-based gameplay with the boost? And how do you think MD fans would feel about it?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
  14. Josh

    Josh

    Oldbie
    1,731
    351
    63
    USA
    Hey, I said boost OR classic designs, not both! :P Honestly though, I don't know there's a way you could remake SA1 in a way that would be palatable to modern audiences without making it "not SA1," at least in the eyes of many of its most ardent fans.

    But like I said, I wasn't answering in a way that was at all concerned with how people might react. I know what Sonic looks like matters a great deal to people; I saw what happened to Sonic 4 in 2010 and Project Hero in 2020, haha. Not to say it doesn't matter to me, too, just that it never mattered THAT much. Looking at that concept art had me dreaming of what might have been, and that's what spurred the idea.

    So I was just answering with what would get me, personally, most hyped about a remake. And in the same vein, I'm sure tons of people would appreciate a remake of Sonic 1 in the style of Rush! Honestly, that could make for a fascinating, fresh take on a game everyone's played, especially if we could get Hideki Naganuma on-board...

    If 3D Sonic does end up ditching the boost, I love @BadBehavior's idea. Much as I love boost games (and if I could separate myself from my nostalgia, Sonic Generations might just BE my favorite game, so it's quite a lot), I could definitely live with it being relegated to one of Super Sonic's abilities if the core gameplay was still awesome.
     
  15. BadBehavior

    BadBehavior

    Member
    146
    37
    28
    You say that knowing Sonic 4 exists. Or maybe that was your point: We know how MD fans felt about that, so the reaction of Adventure fans towards some SA1 in name only remake would be similarly vicious and laden with "green eyes" tier hyperbole, even if it was a decent enough game.
     
  16. Wildcat

    Wildcat

    Member
    100
    26
    28
    I already mentioned some of this before.

    Anyway updated graphics and such are a given. I do not want a 32 bit look. It’s fine sometimes like Mania’s special stages but a 3D game should look as modern as possible imo. No retro/Saturn graphics for the sake of nostalgia.

    Big the Cat needs actual stages. Turn his rod into a weapon that grabs stuff. Like mentioned above about the werehog. Make fishing a side game that unlocks bonus content or something. Maybe 3 locations you can fish at throughout the hub world. (Mystic Ruins, Station Square, Beach)

    Knuckles’ needs to change somehow too. No more wondering around. Make his stages more like puzzles where you have to figure out how to get to the emerald piece (not 3 separate pieces, no random placement). You must use his gliding/digging abilities to get to what’s basically the Goal.

    Tails should be going up against a badnik not Sonic. This robot does not have to be a major character. Just an enemy sent to get in his way that he eventually defeats.

    This next one is not a huge deal but the Casino stage should change. Collecting rings just to fill the vault is not really a stage. It’s funny if you think Speed Highway is an impossible structure nobody could ever drive on (I know it’s not meant to be taken literally but it exists in this city) but the Casino was straightforward. The same series that gave us Casino Night.

    Additions like new stages and side characters/missions would be cool. Oh and include a boss fight with Metal and that other robo-Sonic behind glass.
     
  17. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

    Arriving four years late. Member
    4,929
    107
    43
    Lincs, UK
    TurBoa, S1RL
    Ditch Sonic's gameplay. Ditch Tails' gameplay. Ditch Knuckles' gameplay. Ditch Amy's gameplay. Ditch Gamma's gameplay.

    The entire game is Chao Garden. In order to get animals to feed the Chao, you have to fish for them.
     
  18. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

    size of a tangerine Member
    331
    106
    43
    All six characters stay. Big stays (considering Amy is even less fun than Big, I'm not sure why this is so controversial). The characters need to have their gameplay refined, the degree to which is needed is dependent on the character of course.

    Sonic can stay mostly the same gameplay-wise, but he needs some adjustments to how he controls; basically he should move more like in the classic games, with his movement based on ball physics, and a little less floaty (not too heavy though). Spindash can't be spammed, while pressing the spindash button when moving makes Sonic spin and roll (perhaps pressing it again while still moving can cancel the spin). Tails should move like Sonic now does (plus his extra abilities), and he maybe should get some extra zones that are non-racing, so that his gameplay has some more variety. Knuckles could maybe be refined or could stay more or less the same, I'm not sure what would be best for him. Amy needs to be a little bit faster, so that her levels don't feel so sluggish. Big needs some improvement. Maybe give him not fishing sections where his rod is a weapon as some have mentioned. The actual fishing has to be made less finicky, but it shouldn't really be a problem all things considered. Gamma doesn't really need to change at all.

    Level design I feel should take an overall conservative approach. Making changes to smooth out some of the level design isn't something I'm necessarily against, but I think the broad strokes should remain reasonably faithful to the original. Windy Valley could maybe even mix elements from the beta level in with the finished version, who knows. Booster pads should be eliminated where possible and loops should be interactive, since having a properly functioning physics system should make that sort of thing not a problem. Camera is something I've honestly never been able to figure out for myself. My own preferences tell me that the original game had a fine camera that only had big issues when the character was going through a small enclosed area. But there are issues, since trying to control the camera leads to the game fighting you a lot. One thing I know for sure, is that the little zoom in/out thing the camera does at the beginning of Speed Highway has to stay in. :p

    Graphics, presentation, voice acting, etc., is something that pains me a little, because I'm positive my desires would never be met by a real Sonic Team remake of SA1. All of the graphics and textures and stuff should be directly informed by the original Dreamcast version. Character models should be either high-poly recreations of the in-game Dreamcast models or improved versions of the already high-poly promotional models used in the prerendered cinematic. Cutscenes should stay generally faithful to the action and dialogue in the original, but obviously they should be animated well (personally I think SA2 has the best looking in-game cutscenes in any 3D Sonic game, and I think they used motion capture for those, so maybe they should do whatever they did then). The English version should be re-translated with more accurate dialogue, and this brings me to the part that makes me really sad... voice actors. The Japanese dialogue could probably be repurposed from the original game, but the original English dialogue was not only badly translated at times, but also had moments of funky line delivery from the actors due to poor direction. So newly-translated English dialogue needs to be recorded brand new. I hate basically half the voices of the current Sonic cast (not personally of course). Smith as Sonic has never fit in my head well, and his voice would kill any feeling that I'm playing an updated version of Sonic Adventure. Amy's voice is grating and ill-fitting, and Tails, well, should actually sound like a boy. Knuckles and of course Eggman I'd be fine with their current voices (though with Eggman, there isn't even a choice to bring Deem Bristow back unless his original recordings are repurposed). But if at all possible, Sonic and Amy need to have either their original SA1 actors back, and Tails needs to be a boy.

    The Chao Garden should, well, exist. Not sure what sort of changes should be made to it since I don't actually interact with it that much as it is.

    EDIT: Also, is adding boost to an Adventure remake even a consideration? Like, seriously? That would be a horrible decision. Talk about a massive "fuck you" to a bunch of fans. Not to mention the game would have to be completely redesigned to account for that change in direction. It's a decision that would alienate me, that's for sure.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
  19. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    Some people in here wanting to remake Sonic Adventure without liking Sonic Adventure, I see.

    I think not making the game true to it's intentions would be disrespectful, so no massive gameplay style changes. Some shake ups to the game progression yeah, some fine tuning of existing controls/mechanics sure, some additions to the level design to give it extra flavor absolutely, and some better cutscenes OF COURSE! But the amount of drastic rewrite some of you guys want in order to consider it a "good" game is kind of ridiculous since it's.. well, a pretty good game already.

    And yes, I know we all want to consider saying Sonic Adventure as a good game as-is is some kind of nono, but it is. It's buggy as shit, it's cutscenes don't match the level of ambition they were reaching for, and there's some sloppy design decisions throughout, but I've played plenty of games with any combination of those things (including all three) and walked out acknowledging that I had a good time. And this game, despite those things have managed to really somehow stay up there in my all time favorites.

    Polishing those three things would be for the best in a proverbial remake, but abandoning the game's artistic intentions and better aspects for reasons as weird as "make it a boost game or make it a classic game" irks me a lot. Especially since I feel like the biggest thing worth celebrating about Sonic Adventure is that it cares not for your labelling of what 'classic' or 'modern' Sonic means. It's both. It's neither. It is what it is. It's Sonic the Hedgehog, baybee, and it's bringing you along for the ride. Boxing what Sonic can do into one category or the other has been a poison the fanbase has went out of it's way to drink, especially since the days of Sonic 4 & Generations, and I think that the first step to making a good modern realization of this game (or Sonic in general, for that matter) is admitting ya got a problem.

    I dunno, I'll probably eventually go into how I'd see an SA1 remake to go at it's best since I've written a million and one posts about it amongst friends and on SSMB over the years, but for now I'll just say that a lot of the convo as it started rubbed me the wrong way lol.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  20. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

    I like Sonic Advance Member
    1,042
    127
    43
    France
    Learning how to draw, studying Japanese
    An Adventure 1 remake is something I thought about a lot over the years, here's how I would go about remaking it:
    -3 story modes instead of 6 : all 6 playable characters are in a duo, resulting in only 3 different storylines. You can select which of the 2 characters you want to play as at the beginning of each of their respective stage.

    -First duo is Sonic and Tails: Tails would be more exploration based while Sonic would be faster and have the homing attack. The two would be together to stop Eggman and his schemes.

    -Second duo is Amy and Gamma: The levels would be more action focused with slight shooting mechanics for Gamma or slight beat 'em up mechanics for Amy and her hammer; nothing too excessive in both cases. They'd be together on a quest to stop the e-series and rescue the little fickly Amy finds at the beginning of the game.

    -Third and last duo would be Knuckles and Tikal. The levels would be exploration based but still have an end goal. Knuckles would be more power based while Tikal could be faster or have an easier time climbing walls.
    The two would be together to restore the master emerald and stop Chaos, with Tikal taking some sort of physical form using the chaos emeralds' power or something.

    It does sound pretty different from the base game, but I feel like it would still be a faithful interpretation of the Adventure style of gameplay (with 3 different gameplay styles, each with their own levels), and would also echo back to the classic games Adventure took some inspiration from; with being able to select one of 2 characters and discover different parts of the level based on their abilities.

    Having the story divided in 3 could help remedy the repetition problems from the original game, with each story focusing on a specific part of the storyline and nothing else (Eggman/E-Series/Echidna Stuff)

    Oh and Big could have a cameo somewhere maybe idk