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Homing Attack or Not?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MegaDash, Jun 30, 2011.

  1. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    I dunno, I prefer boost. I love how Rush and Rush Adventure (not Colors DS) are filled with enemies and the little animals cheer you up when making tricks to fill the boost bar :D
     
  2. KazeSenshi

    KazeSenshi

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    I like the homing attack, it makes the game more faster and you can do more "tricks". I don't like th boost, I hate it, I prefer the spindash. With the boost it becomes like "press right to win". With the spindash you must have the technique to use it fastly, otherwise you will do a miserable spin pressing down while walking :P
     
  3. The Angry Colossal

    The Angry Colossal

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    I can understand the need for the Homing Attack in the 3D games, but I think they need to do away with chains of enemies over pits and instead have the attack be used for optional shortcuts or for improved (but not necessarily guaranteed) accuracy during platforming segments. I also think there needs to be more enemy variation so that Homing Attack can't be used for any encounter; I think there needs to be a return of things like Caterkiller that have to be attacked carefully and from the right direction.

    In 2D, I think the Homing Attack is mostly unnecessary unless the level design specifically accommodates it. Given that the last time somebody tried to design levels around the homing attack we got Sonic 4, I think we could do without it. I can see it being used to give you just that extra boost to reach an enemy or platform in case you're a little bit short on momentum or misjudge your jump, but the levels should never absolutely require it to progress.
     
  4. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    I think Sonic 4 failed in properly implemented it because not only did they make it too neccessary to the gameplay, but they were rather uninventive about it (ie. just endless lines of Bubbles).

    I like homing attack as it is a unique attack for Sonic that gives him a significant edge over the others, I think the insta shield was a sucky equivelant to being able to glide, climb or fly around levels and find hidden paths and items. It just needs to be implemented in a similar manner, more optional and well crafted areas where you can use the ability to make the game more interesting to play as Sonic in particular.
     
  5. Sonic Warrior TJ

    Sonic Warrior TJ

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    I generally don't have a problem with it, but it's felt too stiff in recent years compared to the Dreamcast titles. Generations' Serial Homing skill lets you do attacks in more rapid succession, closer to its first two or three appearances, but its inability to keep you moving when you aren't locked onto something I feel detracts from the gameplay (in contrast to to the Adventures' H.A. being used as an air dash of sorts), and perhaps hurts it worse than in '06 because of the boost's inclusion sort of encouraging you to, well, go fast.
     
  6. I love the homing attack for modern Sonic but I wish Generations was more like Colors where you could double jump with nothing targeted. It would make platforming, especially in 2D, so much easier. Whenever I got to some of the sidescrolling sections in the modern levels I kept wishing I could make slight corrections with double jump, because compared to Colors and Classic Sonic, Modern Sonic's 2D platforming just seemed clumsy in Generations.
     
  7. MastaSys

    MastaSys

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    When the homming attack isn't necessary to reach some patch via enemy chain, and if it exist is given to you as a hard to have unlockable and optional, since is a bit overpowered like Super Sonic, I actually like it, and it feels nice.

    When used as an excuse for rushed and crappy level design, and shoved into your throat when the premise given is that you can play it the opposite way, it's hateful. (S4&G3DS*cof*)
     
  8. Rokkan

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    Did anyone even use the homing attack in the Advance series or Sonic Rush? The Homing Attack was completely useless there and didn't work at all. I always got myself hit whenever I tried to use the homing attack in these games.

    The inclusion of the Homing Attack in Sonic 2 Retro Remix and Sonic Megamix was welcome because it wasn't completely useless or tacked on so that you can attack a row of stupid enemies - the pace and design of both games are different than of Classic Sonic, it wasn't about building momentum, speed was given to you rather easily with the Jump-Dash, however it had design choices that complimented those decisions. Even though Sonic was potentially more powerful in these games, because of the many abilities, the frequent item monitors and all, both games had a bunch of enemies and a way harder difficulty which penalized you for spamming certain actions without any thought or regard.
     
  9. muteKi

    muteKi

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    Perhaps it's because I haven't been that interested in going back to Megamix for quite some time but I can't recall that many situations where you couldn't get away with mindlessly homing attacking.
     
  10. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

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    What little you have in that point that isn't subjective actually boils down to bad level design. Homing attack doesn't HAVE to break flow. Hell, it can establish it.

    I don't know what planet you live on, but last I checked, building your levels around your ability set was good level design. The best example I can think of for this is Viewtiful Joe, where every single ability, no matter how seemingly miniscule was needed to progress through the game. On that front, 4 at least gets an A for effort. T

    Because double jumping next to an enemy is so freaking difficult amirite?

    What the hell game were YOU playing? Light Dash is more useful in Megamix than the Homing Attack was.


    Now you're just taking this piss >_>




    Um...yes? What am I, the only guy proficient at double jumping/pressing the R button or something? I think Rush even had enemy chains. Can't say for sure, haven't played it in forever.

    Then your problem is not with the Homing Attack itself, it's with the level design, or more specifically, the object placement. I think these posts here pretty much prove that the Homing Attack is just the latest scapegoat in the eternal Sonic fan rage. I can't wait to hear the complaining about Sonic using the "bird running" style.
     
  11. Chimpo

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    Most games offer variation with the ability set you're given. 4 offered none of that. It stuck to using the exact same chain from the beginning of the game till the very end. It doesn't deserve any recognition for effort.
     
  12. Rokkan

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    Never said my problem was with the Homing Attack specifically, I do defend that it is a necessity in 3D games, while in 2D games, it definitely changes the pace of the game, making it faster and easier to chain enemies up. Because of that, the difference is how it is implemented, I want to have the feel of accomplishment of doing it instead of being obligated to do it, I want to feel like I need to use it skillfully, I want to be punished for spamming it without any regard to what's going on, to have a bigger reward bouncing on enemies regularly than Homing Attacking, and/or that by Jump-Dashing and Homing Attacking I'm not being cheap. Some, or all of those things, I can definitely feel on Sonic 2 Retro Remix, Sonic Megamix and even on Sonic Generations (PC/PS3/360 version). Definitely not on Sonic 4. Dunno on other Dimps games because I pretty much never used Homing Attack on the Advances or on the Rushes, so it pretty much seems completely useless on those games to me. Maybe on Colors DS but that game sucked anyway.
     
  13. DimensionWarped

    DimensionWarped

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    It's not a necessity in the 3D games. It's only a necessity if you absolutely must bop small enemies with the barest minimum of thought or if you absolutely must not introduce new mechanics or design around it. It's not like there is ever really that much impetus for killing your enemies in Sonic games in the first place. Once you've gotten past them, the threat is basically neutralized. That said, there is already a mechanic in place to obviate the need of the homing attack... that being the quickstep. By having the various quickstep plains, when approaching an enemy from a forward direction and with an adequate view of how high the enemy is off the ground, it wouldn't be that hard to say, quick step in front of an enemy when you get close and then jump in the air. And if the enemy is on the ground, you could perhaps have the option to instead, oh... I don't know, maybe roll into the enemy instead if you aren't sure of your ability to jump on top of it accurately?
     
  14. Rokkan

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    I don't think you're taking into account that Sonic is Sonic and not Mario. He's based around speed, acceleration, momentum, and just "gotta go fast" in general. It's very hard to calculate when will you hit an enemy or even where will you even land if you jump while building a lot of momentum in 3D/first person/back view camera, even if you're locked on a trail like you said so with the quickstep. That'd only effectively work if all enemies were at this same height off the ground, if they didn't move forwards or backwards, if they didn't have any sort of small complexities to them, like distinct attack patterns and specific weakspots, if the gameplay was locked on trails, and if the ground didn't have too much slopes to it.

    When I say that the Homing Attack is a necessity, it's because it is the most efficient solution to this jumping problem - you can try to make other solutions around the transition of 2D to 3D gameplay of Sonic, but they're mostly really not worth it.
     
  15. Reading Blaze's comparison on how Mario did things slightly differently from ages ago, and it occurred to me that the homing attack could act much more like the Galaxy spin attack and act as a stun move, and then you can go ahead and jump or roll an enemy into submission. Not sure if this was actually said and I've just decided that it was my idea.
     
  16. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Congratulations. You've redesigned a game about constant movement to a stop and go game. You've created Mario.
     
  17. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    In addition to what Chimpo said, '06 and Heroes let use do the whole stun thing and it wasn't fun. Especially with the way your describing it, it sounds like it would function very similarly to enemies having HP which plain sucks TBH.
     
  18. DimensionWarped

    DimensionWarped

    Erinaceous! Oldbie
    No it isn't. Did it quite frequently in Colors without any trouble. I'm dismissing the rest of your post because of this lame excuse. Besides, it isn't about where you land. You plow into enemies from the front if they are in the air, and like I was saying you opt for a rolling attack if they are more ground oriented. It wasn't easy in the first place to land perfectly on smaller enemies in the 2D games (while moving at a fast pace) if your objective was to bounce off of them. Thankfully you had plenty of other options since, unlike Mario, you don't have to attack from above.
     
  19. You skip half the badniks anyway. For minor threats, stun and run. For major threats, regardless of your moveset, you are going to have to stop and take care of it.


    I think a lot of Heroes (the only one of those two that I have had an experience of) was you locked in a room, expecting you to defeat all the enemies. If you didn't need to defeat an enemy to progress, like I said above, you could just stun any pests and keep moving. Though perhaps people would still feel the need to kill it... I guess if you kept some forward speed, you wouldn't be encouraged to stick around, unless you really needed to. It's not perfect, it's just a concept.
     
  20. Rokkan

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    Ah yes, because the rest of the post didn't explain why it's hard and why in Colors it was easy.

    I ask you to deal with less punchbag-like enemies at high speeds using the quick-step method in a more complex 3D world without stopping or losing much momentum, and I'll see if the quick-step method works on all situations in Colors and in Generations that doesn't specifically require a larger range that the homing attack gives, or to re-aim in midair (chains and all).