Hirokazu Yasuhara revealing all kinds of Sonic development stuff

It wasn't and they are on different timelines. It's more like EHz and HTz. A pallete swap for Sand/Snow would feel really out of place.

 

That sounds like a logical deduction, but I don't see any equivalent levels on the map whose names fit the sand and snow themes? The two counterparts to Sand Shower are both labeled Rock World, which doesn't sound like a snow level's name to me. And from looking at the maps, their locations seem to be a mountain (or possibly a cave inside it) and a jungle.

 

It's like I'm back in fucking 2005.


http://info.sonicretro.org/File:Sket_banper.png

http://info.sonicretro.org/Tim_Skelly_interview_by_ICEknight_(August_2004)

Rock World Zone ("Rock Zone") is the past counterpart to "Desert Zone". Sand Shower Zone is therefore the name of the desert level. The winter zone was a separate level. We don't know its name.

Everything else is pointless speculation. A good theory sucks as much as a bad one because you don't know which is which until you have the actual facts.

 

That map doesn't have place for a cave nor Wing Fortress. I really think this map was made before meeting with the American team.

 

Okay then, the desert and winter levels were going to be separate zones. I stand corrected.

 

Quoted for truth. Given that we know the artist for the map, and that only at some point during development the project was moved over seas and the American team at STI was brought in, this map probably was made prior to STI's involvement.

That would explain why there is no overt reference to a winter level. It could very well explain why nothing named Hidden Palace is on the map; though considering the interviews with Craig Stitt that probably evolved out of the Rock Worlds on display. The earliness of the map could explain the lack of Wing Fortress though.

Furthermore, regardless of when the STI team got involved or when Yasuhara concieved the maps, Brenda Ross admitted to being a late addition to the team.

Now I really wish we could place exactly when the maps were drawn...

 

I think you mean LukyHRE too:

http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=36719&view=findpost&p=893097

And Master Emerald was right, if you refine the search adding "landscape" almost all images are snow mountains and a few with dirt or sand. If you search "Dusty" then the results are the opposite.

Imagine if in the end all this was a misunderstanding between the team members, I mean, Craig was asked for an underground palace and drew a cave. "Design a hill covered in dust" (gets a different level) "no that's not... Oh well, turn it into snow" :v:

If someone contacts Yusuhara we have to ask about the collapsed zones in the island, and how it affected the original levels. Even if he doesn't remember the original Dust Hill concept that could give us clues of how it could affect GHZ.

 

Pallet Swap Mystic cave ! lol Idea could have lead to Ice cap zone's act 2 ?

 

Haha I haven't looked at this thread for a few days and it's good to see the DUST still hasn't settled :specialed:

In all seriousness though I hope that it never gets solved, I still want to be arguing over that name when I'm 60

 

That document never says the Desert Zone is the present version of Rock Zone. What it does say is that the Desert zone is in the present time and rock zone is in the past and that the badnik would appear in both zones. Sonic 1 had many badniks reused in different levels so why is this suddenly not allowed to happen in Sonic 2? There is also no way to tell which present map (If any at all) it is either.

 

Craig said in an interview that he was asked to create a zone filled with rocks/crystals. He even mentioned that, had he known the name was 'Hidden Palace', it would have been more palace-like.

 

Looking at those maps that look so similar in all games, I've realized something: what if Sonic didn't travel from one island to another, but just went from one parallel dimension to another? Chaos emeralds do that kind of things, after all.

Now, seriously, while there's some base to argue about where and how was the "Dust Hill" name used, other zones don't require so much discussion as there are no contradictory evidences about them, and translation issues are not affecting them either. Building a prehistoric palace underground isn't such a big deal, Labyrinth zone already looked that way.

 

So they tought names before giving instructions to the level designers but didn't shared the information, even the provisional ones? That's weird, but it can explain why Brenda didn't remember the name by herself and kept using "desert level".

 

Well, it seems like the language barrier may have played a significant role in all the info not getting passed along.

 

Hopefully all this talk in this thread concludes with a "what-if" Sonic 2 hack based on the new information we've found out.

has the Digital Dragons talk been uploaded to youtube yet? been really wanting to see it.

 

??? means the same thing in Japanese that it does in English. That's just the katakana of the English word. However, they take it a step further to represent any sort of powder, especially any kind that floats through the air, where we would think more along the lines of dirty dust.

I just passed the Japanese proficiency test last winter and spent the last few years living in Japan. I'm always eager to help the community. Hit me up if you ever need any translation.

Beyond that, wasn't it rumored at one point that there was going to be a desert level that would pallete swap to a winter level? If that's the case, then the name Dust could have worked on multiple levels. It could have been a pun that covered the dusty aspects of a desert with the powder aspects of snow.

EDIT: Yeah, it's on the wiki itself.
"Ross also claimed in an interview that the level would have above ground and below ground sections[7]. Alongside Ross, art director Tim Skelly has suggested that most of the graphic tiles would have been reused (with different colors) in a winter level[7][6]."

 

With that said, again, it lends further credence to Dust Hill being in reference to ashes, sandstorms, and snow. The contrary evidence points to Mystic Cave overlapping with a level slot labelled Dust Hill.

Oh yeah, and I too hope for that hack one day.

 

Taken from aJapanese dictionary...
????dust? ???
? ??????????
? ???????????????????????????
Meaning-
Dust - Meaning
1. Dirt. Dust. Trash.
2. Small particles of dirt or crystals that float in the air. [Diamond dust]

So, all in all, I'd say that sand or snow come to mind before coal dust.

 

To confuse matters further...

If the background of Mystic Cave does depict crystals, and not coal or vegetation, then it could fit under Dust Hill. "small particles of dirt or crystals that float in the air."

 

I guess, until someone confirms something, it's really up in the air.

But, they changed the name of the zone from Dust to Mystic Cave for a reason. Either because it wasn't supposed to be using that name in the first place, or because the stage changed so much over time that the name didn't really fit anymore.

Or because they just liked it better, I guess.