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Hirokazu Yasuhara revealing all kinds of Sonic development stuff

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, May 22, 2017.

  1. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Don't we already have the map of what was originally intended to be the one-act Genocide City? And its graphics are said to have been reworked into Spinball's The Machine, so... that's something.
     
  2. RAMPKORV

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    Azure Lake. It does look quite a bit like Blue Lake Woods from Kid Chameleon, while we're at it.
     
  3. Blue Lake Zone?
     
  4. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

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    Can we stop comparing the S3 2P levels to this early S2 plan, please? There's nothing real to go on. The name was either recycled or even coincidence. The 2P stages are clearly meant to be parallels to the single player levels of S3.

    We have quite a lot, yes. We also don't have a lot. I want the entire design revealed.

    For some hypothetical reconstruction, I don't want large swaths of the game to be made up of speculation of conjecture. It must be authentic, anything less and it's pointless.
     
  5. Shoemanbundy

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    Sorry if anyone has said this already and I'm reiterating, but I just thought of something.

    Regarding that unused track that people used to think was Hidden Palace, I'm starting to think it's sad tone implies that Sonic didn't collect all the emeralds and so Eggman wins and the game would have ended there. I can certainly imagine a scenario like the final ending where you see pictures showing what has happened to the future while this track plays. That would explain the length of the track, since as someone else pointed out, even Sonic 3&K cutscenes only lasted a few seconds, and I find it unlikely they were planning cutscenes with sprites that go on for this long. That would have not really fit the character of the game. The way Masa's demo has that ending doesn't sound like something where the game would continue afterward. It sounds like an ending.

    Anyway, after re-listening to Masa's demo for Mystic Cave 2P it feels even more obvious how it was likely the original intended track for Hidden Palace. It's got a somewhat prehistoric feel to it. Fits with the scenery of dinosaur bots roaming around. No doubt Stealth knew exactly what he was talking about. And the fact the devs consistently left that track for HPZ throughout the game's development makes me feel like they'd also likely leave Mystic Cave labeled as Dust Hill on purpose since that was in fact its original name. They knew what they were doing.

    On the other hand I'm conflicted with the Casino Night Zone 2P track. It plays in Oil Ocean in the beta, sure, but it doesn't even sound like it fits at all. At least HPZ's track has that prehistoric quality going for it in the demo, but the horns and all in this track don't really fit an oil factory. It's all maybe bias just due to being used to the final, though.
     
  6. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Which also has some vegetation that looks even more similar to Aquatic Ruin's, but... it was also the previous game made at the STI, so they may have just based the graphics on their previous work

    Kinda sounds like the Master System Sonic 2 ending when you look at it that way, although its final, looping version does seem to have been meant to be repurposed as a regular level BGM, seeing how it was assigned to the non-cutscene Hidden Palace's level slot before release.
     
  7. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

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    It's all subjective, but I actually do think it fits. Can't really explain why, it just works. Of course, the Arabian music fits the level too, but that was clearly intended for Sand Shower Zone.
     
  8. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    There's lots of Sonic tracks that don't sound too out of place when played in other levels, I'd say.
     
  9. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Poland needs to get its act together - it's been six days since that conference occurred and there's still nothing on YouTube.

    Also
    Yeah this topic is full of people making connections without much proof.
    we wouldn't want to jump the gun, would we :v:
     
  10. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    Except that we know the desert level and the winter level were two separate levels.

    Considering it's right next to Oil Ocean...
     
  11. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

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    Admittedly mere conjecture, yes. I have more to go on than the people claiming some connection to the 2P S3 stages, however.

    The internal level order on the Wai beta does seem to closely match the time travel maps. The blank slot that plays the Arabian song is right after Wood Zone. Sand Shower on the map is right after Woods Zone. Besides, that's the one song that couldn't possibly fit anywhere else but Oil Ocean, and we know it wasn't originally assigned to that level despite existing.

    Do I have definite proof? No, but I think this is one of the safer assumptions one could make.
     
  12. Shoemanbundy

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    That's the thing throwing a lot of people off probably. The fact that when the time travel concept was ditched, lots of stuff that no longer had a place was repurposed/in the process of being repurposed, and now people are looking at it and trying to fit it into place with old concept sketches when it's not going to work.

    Anyway, if I had to put in more speculation, I'd say as a last ditch effort to save HPZ it was only later on they decided that it would be a secret level and that's when they decided to repurpose that tune and made it loop. Or was there a former artist who said HPZ was always intended as a secret level? So confusing whose word to go by.
     
  13. Craig Stitt, artist, on Hidden Palace.

    "It was supposed to be a *secret* level, but I guess they kept putting it off till it was too late."

    "I am afraid that I can't remember what opened up the secret. It was early in the game though, not at the end like a traditional 'bonus level'."
     
  14. Uberham

    Uberham

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    My take is that Rock Zone became Mystic Cave and Ocean Wind sounds like it might be Aquatic Ruin.
     
  15. Comparing the Banper sketch with this here sketch would it be safe to assume that the Banper evolved into the second sketch?

    It appears that Banper would either pop out from the ground to bounce Sonic away, or as of the later sketch, move towards Sonic to bounce him in a multitude of directions. Perhaps the Banper badnik would have had an evolved model, such as the Armadillo-like thing at the bottom of the second sketch, in a later iteration of the Rock World Zone. It states it would be in another zone in the first sketch as well, translated to Dust Hill? or a different zone?
     
  16. Overlord

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    For what it's worth, dustbin is a common word in Britain for referring to a receptacle that you put rubbish in. Rubbish bin is also a thing but in this context less used.

    That said, I'm on the side of Dust Hill = Mystic Cave. "Diamond dust" as a term for snow depends on the diamond part.
     
  17. Sparks

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    I don't remember if this was mentioned or not, but with Green Hill and Hill Top being in the same spot on the maps, I was reminded that the GHZ tunnels returned in HTZ:
    [​IMG]
    Looking at it now, it's very likely this was more than just a nod to GHZ.
     
  18. Sonic Hachelle-Bee

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    After thoughts, the most obvious solution about Dust Hill Zone is that this is a beach dune.

    [​IMG]


    Think about it:
    • This is next to the ocean.
    • It collapses into the ocean, just like what is shown on the map.
    • There is some kind of vegetation remaining (this is not Green Hill kind of vegetation, and not the desert level kind of vegetation either).
    • It is mostly composed of very dusty, thin and volatile sand. You can easily see the dust when running through it by foot or with a vehicle at high speed.
    The name Dust Hill Zone just makes perfect sense in this case. This is not the desert level, this is not Mystic Cave, this is only another level we have never see. Maybe it shared similarities with the desert level which confused the developers when asked about the desert level mockup.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. XCubed

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    Masa's HPZ track sounds to epic at the end to be used for something dad. How ever, unrealized ideas are reused all the time. Everyone forgot about the Lost Labyrinth cut scene in Sonic 4 Episode Metal. Hidden Palace was stretched all over.
     
  20. Black Squirrel

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7GeZ3YmONw