Hill Top Zone

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Canned Karma, Mar 22, 2010.

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  1. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    I'm liking Growler's idea. I wonder if adding extra edges along the branches like a sawblade could aid with the shaping as well.

    Here's a couple mockups I did for reference. Ignore everything but the shapes.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. steveswede

    steveswede

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    <!--quoteo(post=456338:date=May 19 2010, 10:03 PM:name=Canned Karma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canned Karma @ May 19 2010, 10:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=456338">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm liking Growler's idea. I wonder if adding extra edges along the branches like a sawblade could aid with the shaping as well.

    Here's a couple mockups I did for reference. Ignore everything but the shapes.

    [​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    To me. It would make it look too organic. But also. If this was done in the fashion of say adding it to MaximusDM version. It might make it look too busy, and in a way very messy.

    <!--quoteo(post=456335:date=May 19 2010, 09:51 PM:name=MaximusDM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaximusDM @ May 19 2010, 09:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=456335">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The colour is close. But needs tweaking properly. It seems more dark than vibrant. The shading doesn't seem right to me. A prime example are the central leaves tips. there shouldn't be any shadows on them. Also the shape of the cone is looking odd to me. It like it's a bit chunky. The shape looks like it needs to be altered so it has a more concave cone shape.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. steveswede

    steveswede

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    Also another thing that I think looks good but I didn't notice it until now is this shading that you have for some reason taken off.

    [​IMG]

    It gives the leaves volume instead of looking paper thin. It would look good if you did this to all the leaves.
     
  4. I was curious what the messy 3D tree would look like with a trunk and diff colors...

    [​IMG]
     
  5. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    <!--quoteo(post=456270:date=May 19 2010, 12:55 PM:name=Hamneggs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hamneggs @ May 19 2010, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=456270">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[​IMG]
    You know, the trunks of the thinner trees in the background for Mushroom Hill zone, albeit too light, demonstrate how to have something look organic, and fit the style of Sonic. And those larger, darker trees could be used as inspiration with probably great results.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes. This. Do this.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. MaximusDM

    MaximusDM

    Sonic 2HD - Concept Artist Member
    Here is an update to make it more similar to the sprite with highlights shadows, and tucking in shadows. And after finishing that, I flattened everything and put a slight squeeze on the top to make a slightly concave.

    [​IMG]

    Edit: Looking at it now, the shadows on the leaves are WAY too dark, gonna update this real quick.

    Edit: Gave the previous shadows the much needed opacity change and added some subtle bevels.
     
  7. steveswede

    steveswede

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    The colour is better. The shading is horrible now on the tips. The cone looks alot better now.

    If you have a look at the picture below. The tips of the leaves here have nice, clean cut edges to them.

    [​IMG]

    This to me gives the tree that trippy look that a Sonic game usually pulls off. It's important to get the shade of them right. It's very subtle. But the triangle with the blue arrow above it is slightly darker than the one with the red arrow above it. If you did that same routine on all the tips, but also mirror flip for the right hand side of the tree like you did in your mockup. It will look alot better than that shading.

    Also those 6 light streaky lines going down the leaves make it look a bit tacky. They need blending in better or removing all together.
     
  8. zemulii

    zemulii

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    <!--quoteo(post=456223:date=May 20 2010, 04:03 AM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ May 20 2010, 04:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=456223">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As "interesting" as the results might be, this is supposed to be Sonic 2, so I don't support the idea of making an alternate twisted universe. =P

    Even if it's better than nothing at all being posted at these boards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah that's the part of me that says:

    <!--quoteo(post=456102:date=May 19 2010, 04:44 PM:name=zemulii)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zemulii @ May 19 2010, 04:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=456102">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One part of me says that the original intention for it was to be very geometric and symmetrical...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's the part of me that is being realistic ;). I was just trying to get an idea of just how far a re-imagining could go. I agree that what I'm talking about would be very un-Sonic 2. I think yesterday all the talk of thinking outside the box got me a little over excited :P. I was also kind of trying to inspire some discussion but it looks like it's already happening! Great! See what a couple of mock ups can do to get people active :).

    <!--quoteo(post=456314:date=May 20 2010, 07:39 AM:name=MaximusDM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaximusDM @ May 20 2010, 07:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=456314">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I personally don't think that the tree is supposed to look organic at all. Sonic 3 had a much different art style than 2. And that is why I prefer Sonic 2's art style. From 1 to 2 to 3 you see that it became progressively more organic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=456322:date=May 20 2010, 08:09 AM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ May 20 2010, 08:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=456322">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think Maximus' example is the way to go. That tree doesn't look like it was ever intended to look organic or even textured (contrary to Mushroom Hill, because Sonic 3's style did have that kind of textured stuff).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    A little texture can be a nice final touch, but not to the extent of Sonic 3. Sonic 2 tends to look clean and kind of artificial... even the "organic" zones. Well... Aquatic Ruin is pretty heavily textured, but I've always hated that zone. Ugly colours...

    Anyway there doesn't seem like much point in posting this now - I wasn't expecting so much progress in so little time! But I'll post it anyway. This was the first of a few quick sketches I was intending to do - trying to be a bit creative. Haven't bothered with any more at this stage though. I may do so if I can think of any other ways it could be done while retaining it's original geometric, symmetrical look. I didn't even finish this one :D, but this is about halfway toward what I meant before (so yeah the imagine in my head was really twisted - I wanted to keep this one straight).

    [​IMG]

    I really love MaximusDM's tree with the colour correction (the first one). It looks clean, it looks fresh, it looks vibrant, sharp :D. Just a bit of tidying up, a few tweaks. A little less angular?

    The latest version I think the shading is far too heavy around the edges. I also don't think those dark shades should be around the tips but rather shadows underneath. Maybe a slight outline or something but nothing more (IMO).

    Edit: steveswede's got it right.
     
  9. Cerulean Nights

    Cerulean Nights

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    <!--quoteo(post=456474:date=May 19 2010, 09:00 PM:name=zemulii)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zemulii @ May 19 2010, 09:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=456474">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Looks fine so far, keep working on it!
     
  10. Hamneggs

    Hamneggs

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    Maximus, the shadows on the top of the outermost leaves need to disappear altogether I think...
     
  11. MaximusDM

    MaximusDM

    Sonic 2HD - Concept Artist Member
    And with this: I think I might be done.

    Untextured / Textured (20% Opacity) / Sprite
    [​IMG]

    I just slapped on a google'd grass texture so I'm sure someone could either create or provide a better texture assuming that is the version you fancy. I'm fine with it untextured, but it really couldn't hurt at a low opacity. Now try putting that trunk from the other artist to create a frankenstein tree.
     
  12. Hamneggs

    Hamneggs

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    <!--quoteo(post=456519:date=May 19 2010, 10:01 PM:name=MaximusDM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaximusDM @ May 19 2010, 10:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=456519">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just slapped on a google'd grass texture so I'm sure someone could either create or provide a better texture assuming that is the version you fancy. I'm fine with it untextured, but it really couldn't hurt at a low opacity. Now try putting that trunk from the other artist to create a frankenstein tree.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'd rather see a version of the Mushroom Hill Tree trunk.
     
  13. MaximusDM

    MaximusDM

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    Well hey, this is teamwork, someone make my tree an awesome trunk/base. :D
     
  14. zemulii

    zemulii

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    What is that little blue bit at the base of the trunk?
     
  15. steveswede

    steveswede

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    <!--quoteo(post=456519:date=May 20 2010, 05:01 AM:name=MaximusDM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaximusDM @ May 20 2010, 05:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=456519">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And with this: I think I might be done.

    Untextured / Textured (20% Opacity) / Sprite
    [​IMG]

    I just slapped on a google'd grass texture so I'm sure someone could either create or provide a better texture assuming that is the version you fancy. I'm fine with it untextured, but it really couldn't hurt at a low opacity. Now try putting that trunk from the other artist to create a frankenstein tree.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Looking better. You don't need textures on the tree. It been said that textures are not going to be used. They take away that cartoon feel to it. The colour is a little off but that is very minor. You only really notice it when you look at the trees from a distance. I was hoping you were going to do those cut in triangle shapes alot better by matching what you did originally. But also make them stand out more with a bigger difference in colour from the bulk of the leaf.

    And give the trunk ago. I'm sure you can do a really good job. This what you have done so far with this tree is very impressive.
     
  16. Endgame

    Endgame

    Formerly The Growler Member
    Maximus' tree is coming along quite nicely with respect to the original one.

    Although at the moment, doesn't anyone else think the tree looks like it's made out of metal, rather than leaves? It looks like you could shave on them if you climb it :p

    I suppose that's the only problem with creating it in 3D - that it's very good at making objects look metallic, but much more difficult to make it appear organic. The second one looks a little less metallic, as the texture effect has taken off the 'shininess' a bit


    Is it possible to have some sort of matte lighting on there or something - or maybe 'fur up' the material some how? It might take the edge off the metallic-ness of it.
     
  17. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    <!--quoteo(post=456639:date=May 20 2010, 12:02 PM:name=The Growler)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Growler @ May 20 2010, 12:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=456639">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I suppose that's the only problem with creating it in 3D - that it's very good at making objects look metallic, but much more difficult to make it appear organic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This. This right here. That's exactly why it hasn't been able to mesh with the 2D. Thanks for putting that a bit differently Growler. MDM, it looks like you've got either a phong or a tweaked blinn shader right now; have you tried a lambert? That will cut down on your reflections quite a bit. A subsurface scatter shader, while complete overkill for this, could achieve a similar effect.
     
  18. MaximusDM

    MaximusDM

    Sonic 2HD - Concept Artist Member
    I mean, I did so much of my own shading to match the sprite over my render that I personally don't think the material makes that big of a deal. But I'll let you see for yourself.

    [​IMG]

    I increased opacity on the bevel. I didn't bother putting a squeeze on the top. Because I've done it manually for each post as to not lose pixel information.
     
  19. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    The original did give the impression of a non-organic almost-metallic tree, so I think this is almost perfect.

    It doesn't even look like a clashing 3D model now with all the current shading, and that was the main problem with it, wasn't it?
     
  20. I still think it's worth a try adding a needle texture and seeing if it looks any better. ;)
     
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