Hill Top Zone

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Canned Karma, Mar 22, 2010.

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  1. zemulii

    zemulii

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    <!--quoteo(post=458881:date=May 25 2010, 02:29 PM:name=Gambit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gambit @ May 25 2010, 02:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=458881"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That would only work if the trees looked like they were supposed to be in the distance to begin with. Also, <a href="http://sanik.hacking-cult.org/inker/data/1274754138hill%20top%20mock%20up.zip" target="_blank">here's the mock-up.</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Thanks!

    Here are separate background and foreground images for anyone wanting to mock up a tree:

    Foreground: <a href="http://i48.tinypic.com/2rwqa9h.png" target="_blank">http://i48.tinypic.com/2rwqa9h.png</a>
    Background: <a href="http://i49.tinypic.com/2a8q6h4.png" target="_blank">http://i49.tinypic.com/2a8q6h4.png</a>
     
  2. steveswede

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    This is the concept idea I felt would be best. Even the Black boarders around the lights could be put in as they do look fitting at the moment.

    <img src="http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/slightlytwisted/htzdoor.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
     
  3. Cerulean Nights

    Cerulean Nights

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    <!--quoteo(post=458861:date=May 24 2010, 09:00 PM:name=MaximusDM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaximusDM @ May 24 2010, 09:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=458861"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is someone going to explain how they think the door is supposed to work if you think it isn't lava so I can give it a shot because right now I am working on nothing and I'd like to change that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I just wanna add my 2 cents that the door definitely looks like it contains lava. It only makes sense considering the theme of the level, as well.
     
  4. Hamneggs

    Hamneggs

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    <!--quoteo(post=458924:date=May 24 2010, 10:59 PM:name=Cerulean Nights)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cerulean Nights @ May 24 2010, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=458924"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=458861:date=May 24 2010, 09:00 PM:name=MaximusDM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaximusDM @ May 24 2010, 09:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=458861"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is someone going to explain how they think the door is supposed to work if you think it isn't lava so I can give it a shot because right now I am working on nothing and I'd like to change that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I just wanna add my 2 cents that the door definitely looks like it contains lava. It only makes sense considering the theme of the level, as well.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Didn't another staff member explain that the reason that they used the lava's colors because of palette limitations, not explicit choice? I think that they should be like police siren lights on the side of the door.
     
  5. <!--quoteo(post=458867:date=May 24 2010, 10:10 PM:name=zemulii)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zemulii @ May 24 2010, 10:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=458867"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is there any chance we can get a mock up of Hill Top with no trees? So we can stick new ones over it? Or even better, a separate background and foreground layer would make it even easier!

    Edit:

    An atmospheric blue tint can place the tree further into the background (btw the colours and contrast could be off as I'm using a pretty horrible CRT right now):

    <img src="http://i45.tinypic.com/n2ga46.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You know... at first I thought this was just some sort of weird perversion of what I had said... But, it really isn't <I>that</I> bad. True, the trees are probably not meant to be in the distance, but they are at least somewhat at a distance. Why not apply that bluish atmospheric technique at a much much much lower level, maybe apply it slightly more thick around the outside of the tree (not as much as current). Also apply the same effect to the trunk. It will look very nice against the background!
     
  6. MaximusDM

    MaximusDM

    Sonic 2HD - Concept Artist Member
    <!--quoteo(post=458930:date=May 25 2010, 12:34 AM:name=Hamneggs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hamneggs @ May 25 2010, 12:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=458930"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Didn't another staff member explain that the reason that they used the lava's colors because of palette limitations, not explicit choice? I think that they should be like police siren lights on the side of the door.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well since you aren't going to argue your case. Your case is this:
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think that they should be like police siren lights on the side of the door.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Here is what you should be providing to help other people understand your vision of this door:

    I thought about the light idea in my head and figured that it had to be lava, palette limitations or not. Just by the shape. Its a rectangle, and not a circle.
    So in figure 1 here, we have a siren lights from a top down view. And in figure 2 we have them slid in there like dinner plates.

    I'm over here arguing a side that I don't support with my own concepts because I have no idea how you think this siren thing is supposed to work.

    <img src="http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4485/lightsn.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Draw it out. I don't know what's in your brain.
    If you are looking at the siren from a top down view, it won't retain its rectangle shape. If its from a side view, its has functionality problems because the light of the sirens would be covered from the walls of the steel tube inside probably around 220+ degrees. Now if it were to be protruding horizontally it might make sense.
    But how much functionality does 12 sirens or whatever the number is really have on the side of a door? I would think 1 siren would be enough.

    Here is an argument for lava and how it could function.
    <img src="http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2136/65160723.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Perhaps there is a line of tubing beneath the floor that connects to the lava tube in the door when the door is completely down. This is how the lava is actually pumped into middle area. Maybe this tubing is being used to pump/drill for lava in the volcano and uses it for energy whether it be through the heat of the lava, or the pressure it builds. Maybe its used to control and regulate the volcanos erruptions. And when the lava rises the doors systematically shut similar to that of a ships emergency system to prevent it from taking in more water. The lava tube is there is help direct the lava toward the top and away from the sides.

    But in the end of the day, some things don't have to function because we have been down this same argument with other objects in the Sonic universe, Not all things need to make sense.
     
  7. stormislandgal

    stormislandgal

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    <img src="http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2061/sillyidea.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    It's a silly idea, but if those lights really were lava in the tubing of the door, how about when the door opens, lava particles drip out? They don't have to catch the grass on fire or anything, but it's there to make the level feel a bit more dynamic.

    It's 2:30 AM so my thinking cap isn't on straight nor was I patient enough to put detail into it, but meh. There's an idea for the door.

    edit: Actually, on the note of the lava, is there any plans to distort the level tiles directly over the lava, like they did in NSMBWii? If so, that could put a monkey wrench in the lava door idea.
     
  8. LOst

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    Hmm, that door looks like it was designed to be a one way barrier to contain lava from going through a tunnel. On the open side, it has a thick layer of those things keeping CPUs cold (I don't have the English name), and on the other side, lava is contained to keep temperature (but of course, who really care what function is does, as long as it works! Well looks good that is).
     
  9. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    I think individual whirls of lava in each "window" might look better than a whole vertical mass of it.

    Perhaps they could even sligthly change speeds individually?
     
  10. nineko

    nineko

    I am the Holy Cat Tech Member
    I still think it doesn't make sense for a door to be filled with lava :\

    That said, if it appears to be impossible to pull off a realistic representation of rotating alarm lights, then any interpretation can be good, as long as it <I>looks</I> good.
     
  11. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    <!--quoteo(post=458939:date=May 25 2010, 12:19 AM:name=subsubstantive)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (subsubstantive @ May 25 2010, 12:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=458939"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=458867:date=May 24 2010, 10:10 PM:name=zemulii)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zemulii @ May 24 2010, 10:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=458867"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is there any chance we can get a mock up of Hill Top with no trees? So we can stick new ones over it? Or even better, a separate background and foreground layer would make it even easier!

    Edit:

    An atmospheric blue tint can place the tree further into the background (btw the colours and contrast could be off as I'm using a pretty horrible CRT right now):

    <img src="http://i45.tinypic.com/n2ga46.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You know... at first I thought this was just some sort of weird perversion of what I had said... But, it really isn't <I>that</I> bad. True, the trees are probably not meant to be in the distance, but they are at least somewhat at a distance. Why not apply that bluish atmospheric technique at a much much much lower level, maybe apply it slightly more thick around the outside of the tree (not as much as current). Also apply the same effect to the trunk. It will look very nice against the background!
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Even better, do several versions with gradually increasing bluetint and decreasing size, so we can simulate the third dimension even better.
     
  12. steveswede

    steveswede

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    <img src="http://i45.tinypic.com/n2ga46.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    The trunk looks a lot better now with the squares now fixed. The colour and shading look really good to me. But I'm not impressed with this tint of blue that's been put over the ferns of the tree. It makes it look dull.

    I also feel that we could do with a wide screen shot of HTZ while we are making judgement of the trees. The picture that is being used at the moment doesn't show how the trees will fit in properly with the rest of HTZ because everything is just crammed in a tiny picture. Maybe just a straight piece of ground with a quarter circle ramp to put four trees in there would give a better idea on how this would all look. Maybe something like this.

    <img src="http://dioxaz.free.fr/decors/sonic2/decorhilltop06.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Maybe even put in that bush that Gambit has done to see how well the trees go with that.
     
  13. steveswede

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    This will help for a wider screen mockup shot.

    CornetTheory concept.

    <img src="http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3034/example1s.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Original

    <img src="http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4463/htzbg.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />


    Though I don't understand why no one has really bothered to get HTZ background finalized considering how most of the HD version is complete. Maybe it's something that should be done on a first priority list. After all. Every mockup picture would have it in except the purely underground mockups.
     
  14. <!--quoteo(post=459077:date=May 25 2010, 11:25 AM:name=steveswede)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steveswede @ May 25 2010, 11:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=459077"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This will help for a wider screen mockup shot.

    CornetTheory concept.

    <img src="http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3034/example1s.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Original

    <img src="http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4463/htzbg.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />


    Though I don't understand why no one has really bothered to get HTZ background finalized considering how most of the HD version is complete. Maybe it's something that should be done on a first priority list. After all. Every mockup picture would have it in except the purely underground mockups.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I had mentioned a few changes which I felt might improve the background and was told it was already finished. Although I am not fully happy with it at the moment. I feel it could be sharper, the green and blue peaks don't look right, there should be more green and vibrant. Where the clouds touch the orange mountains is just plain wrong. I think there could be a slight amount of atmosphere added as well. Also, maybe the contrast could be dialed up, at this height I would expect more direct light hitting the mountains, those of you who have flown in a plane should have an idea what I'm refering to. I may as well mention this also... I think the orange mountains are too smooth, I've always seen them as similar to Devil's Tower in North Dakota (I think)
    <img src="http://i46.tinypic.com/29b127o.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
     
  15. Gambit

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    <a href="http://sanik.hacking-cult.org/inker/data/1274806621hill%20top%20mock%20up%20wide.zip" target="_blank">Here's a full scale thing.</a>

    <img src="http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9955/hilltopmockupwide.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
     
  16. Metal-Geo

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    Personally I find that trunk way better than the checkerboard idea.

    <img src="http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/3479/55575061.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
    Did anyone try a slight blend between the two? (Couldn't find the original tree on the right, sorry)
    Give the tree on the right the same trunk as on the left. Add a little thickness to the leafs(?) like on the left. (Although not as thick) And, of course, undo the blue tint.
     
  17. steveswede

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    <!--quoteo(post=459083:date=May 25 2010, 05:57 PM:name=subsubstantive)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (subsubstantive @ May 25 2010, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=459083"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I had mentioned a few changes which I felt might improve the background and was told it was already finished. Although I am not fully happy with it at the moment. I feel it could be sharper, the green and blue peaks don't look right, there should be more green and vibrant. Where the clouds touch the orange mountains is just plain wrong. I think there could be a slight amount of atmosphere added as well. Also, maybe the contrast could be dialed up, at this height I would expect more direct light hitting the mountains, those of you who have flown in a plane should have an idea what I'm refering to. I may as well mention this also... I think the orange mountains are too smooth, I've always seen them as similar to Devil's Tower in North Dakota (I think)
    <img src="http://i46.tinypic.com/29b127o.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It's a bit pointless to point out faults on this mockup if the latest, finalized version is not being shown. You do have fair points. And a good idea on the mountain pattern. But I like the smooth look of these mountains. Having a mockup of what you said might make me change my mind. But I would have to see something before I could make any conclusion.

    <!--quoteo(post=459087:date=May 25 2010, 06:17 PM:name=Gambit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gambit @ May 25 2010, 06:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=459087"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://sanik.hacking-cult.org/inker/data/1274806621hill%20top%20mock%20up%20wide.zip" target="_blank">Here's a full scale thing.</a>

    <img src="http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9955/hilltopmockupwide.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Nice one for doing that.

    Now we just need different mockup pictures of all the tree concepts.
     
  18. Hamneggs

    Hamneggs

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    <!--quoteo(post=459083:date=May 25 2010, 11:57 AM:name=subsubstantive)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (subsubstantive @ May 25 2010, 11:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=459083"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=459077:date=May 25 2010, 11:25 AM:name=steveswede)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steveswede @ May 25 2010, 11:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=459077"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This will help for a wider screen mockup shot.

    CornetTheory concept.

    <img src="http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3034/example1s.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Original

    <img src="http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4463/htzbg.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />


    Though I don't understand why no one has really bothered to get HTZ background finalized considering how most of the HD version is complete. Maybe it's something that should be done on a first priority list. After all. Every mockup picture would have it in except the purely underground mockups.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I had mentioned a few changes which I felt might improve the background and was told it was already finished. Although I am not fully happy with it at the moment. I feel it could be sharper, the green and blue peaks don't look right, there should be more green and vibrant. Where the clouds touch the orange mountains is just plain wrong. I think there could be a slight amount of atmosphere added as well. Also, maybe the contrast could be dialed up, at this height I would expect more direct light hitting the mountains...
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Okay, I agree with several parts of your case, such as:
    -Sharper. But only the orange mountains. The others are supposed to be far off in the distance, and hence blurrier.
    -Contrast. I agree with what you said about the light and altitude.. The mountains show only a fraction of the self-shadowing of the original.

    However, I think that you are being a bit narrowminded and per-pixel-minded on other points:
    -The cloud line. Seriously, you want the clouds to look like a flat layer? We aren't quite that high in the atmosphere. Of course, if you meant that they were too extreme, then I'd agree.
    -Sharper and more vibrant blue mountains. They are seriously far away. They shouldn't be vibrant. It's ironic that you want a bit of atmosphere added, as that request alone would make said mountains not so vibrant. Maybe a tad more vibrant, but not like the original.
     
  19. <!--quoteo(post=459169:date=May 25 2010, 03:38 PM:name=Hamneggs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hamneggs @ May 25 2010, 03:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=459169"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=459083:date=May 25 2010, 11:57 AM:name=subsubstantive)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (subsubstantive @ May 25 2010, 11:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=459083"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=459077:date=May 25 2010, 11:25 AM:name=steveswede)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steveswede @ May 25 2010, 11:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=459077"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This will help for a wider screen mockup shot.

    CornetTheory concept.

    <img src="http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3034/example1s.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Original

    <img src="http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4463/htzbg.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />


    Though I don't understand why no one has really bothered to get HTZ background finalized considering how most of the HD version is complete. Maybe it's something that should be done on a first priority list. After all. Every mockup picture would have it in except the purely underground mockups.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I had mentioned a few changes which I felt might improve the background and was told it was already finished. Although I am not fully happy with it at the moment. I feel it could be sharper, the green and blue peaks don't look right, there should be more green and vibrant. Where the clouds touch the orange mountains is just plain wrong. I think there could be a slight amount of atmosphere added as well. Also, maybe the contrast could be dialed up, at this height I would expect more direct light hitting the mountains...
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Okay, I agree with several parts of your case, such as:
    -Sharper. But only the orange mountains. The others are supposed to be far off in the distance, and hence blurrier.
    -Contrast. I agree with what you said about the light and altitude.. The mountains show only a fraction of the self-shadowing of the original.

    However, I think that you are being a bit narrowminded and per-pixel-minded on other points:
    -The cloud line. Seriously, you want the clouds to look like a flat layer? We aren't quite that high in the atmosphere. Of course, if you meant that they were too extreme, then I'd agree.
    -Sharper and more vibrant blue mountains. They are seriously far away. They shouldn't be vibrant. It's ironic that you want a bit of atmosphere added, as that request alone would make said mountains not so vibrant. Maybe a tad more vibrant, but not like the original.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Regarding the clouds, what I mean is to look at where they actually meet the orange mountains, I'm not sure what to call it, but it's ugly and makes no sense. It's like they are very thick, then abruptly thin and emitting light. Look at them close up, it is self evident.
    I know the blue mountains are far away, and should be more dull and blurry, but I also feel they should have a bit of "bloom", sorta shimmery like one might image the Emerald City at a distance. If others disagree I am less staunch about this point. Lastly, The image I had posted of Devil's Tower should be considered. First of all, it looks very similar to the original orange mountains. Second, the orange mountains were redrawn as a smooth gradient transition, although if we look at the original art we can see that the texture is more rough, it passes back and forth from light/mid/light/dark/light/mid/dark/mid/dark, etc. If it were meant to be smooth it would have gone, light/mid/dark, or light/mid/light/mid/dark/mid/dark. I think that makes sense... Lastly, Devils Tower was created by a volcano that was full of lava hardening, and then the outside layer fell away over time. In HTZ, the blue mountains also fill with lava. Maybe the orange mountains are like Devils Tower, wheras the blue ones have yet to crumble. I will point out that I am not being a "Pixel-fag" or whatever you call it, I think it was the orginal intent, yes, but also that it will look better and more interesting.

    [edit] Also, I too think I prefer the wood texture on the base of the tree over the checker.
     
  20. Gambit

    Gambit

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    The background I used in my mock-up is the most recent version, so look at that. I think someone did a shitty shop on that stand alone one and that's why the cloud line looks like crap. Either that or it's just an old version before the clouds were fixed up.
     
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