Has there ever been a trick to that notorious Sonic 3 cheat?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MarzSyndrome, Apr 10, 2010.

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  1. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    <!--quoteo(post=440681:date=Apr 10 2010, 06:07 PM:name=Mr. Pictures)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ Apr 10 2010, 06:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440681">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does anyone know why that trick works?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's an interesting concept, actually, and pretty simple once you think about it. Let me break it down.

    As most people will know, Sonic 3 is very much based off Sonic 2 (as is Sonic 2 based off Sonic 1); as such, a lot of the RAM locations share the same purpose between the games. One location in particular that matches is the cheat flag that determines if the level select cheat has been activated or not. This is why you can use the same patch code in Sonic 2 and 3 to activate the level select.

    The phenomena in this cheat is the exact process involved in activating it. See, what the cheat does is have you soft reset specifically as opposed to a hard reset; this is because that when you do a soft reset instead of a hard one, RAM isn't cleared from its previous state. What this means is that if you were playing Sonic 2, held down the soft reset button, and suddenly decided to play Sonic 3 instead, that level select flag is still set along with any other kind of cheats or random variables laying around in RAM (I think Chaos Emeralds may also count here). As a result, when you complete the cheat and Sonic 3 boots, that level select flag is very much active; this is what allows you to select the Sound Test option on the title screen.

    Frankly, whoever came up with the method is an absolute genius. This is a pretty universally applicable concept between games based off each other. It won't work for Sonic & Knuckles, though, since it offset those variables in RAM by about $10 bytes or so. Still, the simple nature of it all is what makes it so damned cool.

    So yeah! There's your lesson for today. :eng101:
     
  2. MarzSyndrome

    MarzSyndrome

    Everything is going to the beat. Member
    <!--quoteo(post=440484:date=Apr 10 2010, 04:21 PM:name=Tiddles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tiddles @ Apr 10 2010, 04:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440484">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nowadays, on an emulator, I tend to just use a savestate at the sound test screen, or failing that, my edited ROM with the code changed to just "up".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Really? As in a hex edit? I learnt this weekend how to enable the Sound Test/Level Select from the offset via hex-editing, but didn't know you could affect cheat code settings too. Care to reveal your offset modifications (or GG codes)? :)

    <!--quoteo(post=440681:date=Apr 10 2010, 11:07 PM:name=Mr. Pictures)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ Apr 10 2010, 11:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440681">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I used to do the remove the cartridge trick all the time, but was always scared to do it because I thought I would ruin my game or console. Does anyone know why that trick works? Is it even a legitimate cheat? How does someone discover something like that? I almost thought it was magic at the time. The fact that one game's level select code worked for another when you removed it and replaced it with another game didn't seem right. I thought maybe you could do it for other non-Sonic games too, but I never tried it.

    Anyway, it's by far one of the weirdest and most interesting cheats for the Genesis.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's a wonder why more developers don't try to implement more unique tricks/cheats in their games these days.

    Anyone who had a Commodore 64 and a copy of Creatures 2: Torture Trouble will no doubt recall the one-off wonder that was licking your finger and rubbing it repeatedly against one of the joystick ports to activate unlimited lives. :v:
     
  3. Mr. Pictures

    Mr. Pictures

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    <!--quoteo(post=440685:date=Apr 10 2010, 06:19 PM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Apr 10 2010, 06:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440685">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=440681:date=Apr 10 2010, 06:07 PM:name=Mr. Pictures)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ Apr 10 2010, 06:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440681">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does anyone know why that trick works?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's an interesting concept, actually, and pretty simple once you think about it. Let me break it down.

    As most people will know, Sonic 3 is very much based off Sonic 2 (as is Sonic 2 based off Sonic 1); as such, a lot of the RAM locations share the same purpose between the games. One location in particular that matches is the cheat flag that determines if the level select cheat has been activated or not. This is why you can use the same patch code in Sonic 2 and 3 to activate the level select.

    The phenomena in this cheat is the exact process involved in activating it. See, what the cheat does is have you soft reset specifically as opposed to a hard reset; this is because that when you do a soft reset instead of a hard one, RAM isn't cleared from its previous state. What this means is that if you were playing Sonic 2, held down the soft reset button, and suddenly decided to play Sonic 3 instead, that level select flag is still set along with any other kind of cheats or random variables laying around in RAM (I think Chaos Emeralds may also count here). As a result, when you complete the cheat and Sonic 3 boots, that level select flag is very much active; this is what allows you to select the Sound Test option on the title screen.

    Frankly, whoever came up with the method is an absolute genius. This is a pretty universally applicable concept between games based off each other. It won't work for Sonic & Knuckles, though, since it offset those variables in RAM by about $10 bytes or so. Still, the simple nature of it all is what makes it so damned cool.

    So yeah! There's your lesson for today. :eng101:
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    I thought it had something to do with similar game engines that were based off each other. Thanks for your in depth explanation. Makes me wonder if a developer came up with the idea of making it into a kind of cheat. So technically it wouldn't matter when you removed the cartridge after you entered the level select?

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->t's a wonder why more developers don't try to implement more unique tricks/cheats in their games these days.

    Anyone who had a Commodore 64 and a copy of Creatures 2: Torture Trouble will no doubt recall the one-off wonder that was licking your finger and rubbing it repeatedly against one of the joystick ports to activate unlimited lives.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's neat. I wish we had more interactivity for cheats in games.
     
  4. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    On my butt in front of the computer. Where else?
    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    <!--QuoteBegin-Tweaker+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->:words:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well, I know I learned something here today.

    EDIT: Now what I want to know is who thought it would be a good idea to cartridge-swap in the first place.
     
  5. Quarterman

    Quarterman

    Just another day in paradise. Member
    <!--quoteo(post=440685:date=Apr 10 2010, 03:19 PM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Apr 10 2010, 03:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440685">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Informative :words:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And now we know, and knowing is half the battle!

    I never was able to get the code to work, and as such always thought that my codebooks were lying to me. That used to piss me off. I never tried the cart swapping trick, either. I thought that it would break my Genesis. Hell, I still won't do it. I usually play Sonic 3K if I want to use level select.

    Edit: 100 posts. Groovy.
     
  6. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    On my butt in front of the computer. Where else?
    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    I think I got the level select code in Sonic 3 to work exactly once, after multiple tries. Mostly out of curiosity, as I had a trio of cleared game files already.
     
  7. Vendettagainst

    Vendettagainst

    Apparently shooting kills things Member
    <!--quoteo(post=440685:date=Apr 10 2010, 05:19 PM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Apr 10 2010, 05:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440685">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Frankly, whoever came up with the method is an absolute genius.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That or some kid who was aggravated and desperate.

    Anyway, nope. I used to have the PC version of S3/K, so even when just playing S3, you could do it at a vine on Angel Island for some reason.
     
  8. <!--quoteo(post=440641:date=Apr 10 2010, 10:00 PM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Apr 10 2010, 10:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440641">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I usually just input it like UP UP DOWN DOWN UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP.... until the ring sound plays.

    I remember it playing sometimes when the screen was completely white already, after many UPs had been entered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Holy crap that actually worked, first try to!
     
  9. <!--quoteo(post=440745:date=Apr 10 2010, 07:57 PM:name=Wolf Rogers)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wolf Rogers @ Apr 10 2010, 07:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440745">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=440641:date=Apr 10 2010, 10:00 PM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Apr 10 2010, 10:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440641">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I usually just input it like UP UP DOWN DOWN UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP.... until the ring sound plays.

    I remember it playing sometimes when the screen was completely white already, after many UPs had been entered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Holy crap that actually worked, first try to!
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Holy Hell, I got it 1st time too!

    0.o
     
  10. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    <!--quoteo(post=440691:date=Apr 10 2010, 11:28 PM:name=MarzSyndrome)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MarzSyndrome @ Apr 10 2010, 11:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440691">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone who had a Commodore 64 and a copy of Creatures 2: Torture Trouble will no doubt recall the one-off wonder that was licking your finger and rubbing it repeatedly against one of the joystick ports to activate unlimited lives. :v:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    :psyduck:

    I'd like to see this implemented in a few hacks. Even if it's just to see it written in the wiki:
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">Cheat codes<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
    Level select
    To access level select, lick your finger and rub it repeatedly against the Megadrive controller port 1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Actually getting it to work in a hack would probably be more difficult.
     
  11. Chaos Knux

    Chaos Knux

    Stable avatar temporary. Randomizer site down. Misfit
    Never done it. Never played S3 without K since K was released.
     
  12. MK

    MK

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    I always jammed UP repeatedly at the end myself, I'm sure that helped my chances. As for the cart swap, I wonder how many other games that thing works with.

    <!--quoteo(post=440702:date=Apr 10 2010, 06:45 PM:name=Mr. Pictures)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ Apr 10 2010, 06:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440702">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So technically it wouldn't matter when you removed the cartridge after you entered the level select?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think it worked best in the level select screen because there was less "going on" and the game had less ways to crash. If you get the wrong stuff in the levels, the game will just freeze and resist a soft reset, like in Hill Top Zone 2 when you hit that badnik early and it causes an illegal opcode. The game can't be soft reset after that event.
     
  13. Jaseman

    Jaseman

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    Upon reading this thread, I picked up my DS and tried this. It took me 8 times. Sideways controller method.
     
  14. Søda the Junker

    Søda the Junker

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    I pulled it off only 1 time, and I remember my thumbs were numb and raw by the time I actually got it.
     
  15. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    Sonic 3 level select code can go fuck itself.

    Never been able to do it and S&K just confused me so I never did that one either.
     
  16. Mercury

    Mercury

    His Name Is Sonic Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=440685:date=Apr 10 2010, 10:19 PM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Apr 10 2010, 10:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440685">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=440681:date=Apr 10 2010, 06:07 PM:name=Mr. Pictures)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ Apr 10 2010, 06:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440681">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does anyone know why that trick works?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's an interesting concept, actually, and pretty simple once you think about it. Let me break it down.

    As most people will know, Sonic 3 is very much based off Sonic 2 (as is Sonic 2 based off Sonic 1); as such, a lot of the RAM locations share the same purpose between the games. One location in particular that matches is the cheat flag that determines if the level select cheat has been activated or not. This is why you can use the same patch code in Sonic 2 and 3 to activate the level select.

    The phenomena in this cheat is the exact process involved in activating it. See, what the cheat does is have you soft reset specifically as opposed to a hard reset; this is because that when you do a soft reset instead of a hard one, RAM isn't cleared from its previous state. What this means is that if you were playing Sonic 2, held down the soft reset button, and suddenly decided to play Sonic 3 instead, that level select flag is still set along with any other kind of cheats or random variables laying around in RAM (I think Chaos Emeralds may also count here). As a result, when you complete the cheat and Sonic 3 boots, that level select flag is very much active; this is what allows you to select the Sound Test option on the title screen.

    Frankly, whoever came up with the method is an absolute genius. This is a pretty universally applicable concept between games based off each other. It won't work for Sonic & Knuckles, though, since it offset those variables in RAM by about $10 bytes or so. Still, the simple nature of it all is what makes it so damned cool.

    So yeah! There's your lesson for today. :eng101:
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is truly awesome. I'd love to test the hotswap trick myself for sharts and gurgles, but I'm afraid of damaging the cartridges/console.

    How risky do you guys think hotswapping on the Genesis actually is?
     
  17. <!--quoteo(post=440750:date=Apr 10 2010, 08:03 PM:name=RGamer2009)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RGamer2009 @ Apr 10 2010, 08:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440750">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=440745:date=Apr 10 2010, 07:57 PM:name=Wolf Rogers)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wolf Rogers @ Apr 10 2010, 07:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440745">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=440641:date=Apr 10 2010, 10:00 PM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Apr 10 2010, 10:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440641">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I usually just input it like UP UP DOWN DOWN UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP.... until the ring sound plays.

    I remember it playing sometimes when the screen was completely white already, after many UPs had been entered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Holy crap that actually worked, first try to!
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Holy Hell, I got it 1st time too!

    0.o
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Woaah I got it too :O. It workeeed!!! Never believed I could do it.
     
  18. One word. Savestate :u
     
  19. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    I used to do the code all the time,
    a trick I used was to try it with 2 thumbs, 1 on top and 1 on bottom.

    Its makes it more easy if you keep in mind not to hit a diagonal direction accidentally.
    and make sure to start the code right when the screen turns black (after the Sega logo)
    and finish it before the title screen appears.
     
  20. Endgame

    Endgame

    Formerly The Growler Member
    <!--quoteo(post=440904:date=Apr 11 2010, 12:19 PM:name=Irixion)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Irixion @ Apr 11 2010, 12:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440904">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One word. Savestate :u<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    EASIER than that: the Game Genie code :eng101:
     
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