Graphics

Discussion in 'Project: Sonic Retro (Archive)' started by Phoebius, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. Flare

    Flare

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    True, there is some bad AA in the pixel art which I think when improved will overall make it look cleaner and smoother, as like said by muteKi it has some jaggy parts, there is also some areas where pillow shading is used.

    Overall, its good artwork just needs to have improved shading in parts.
     
  2. Witch Chao

    Witch Chao

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    [​IMG]

    A couple of Amys I put together. I really like the outcome, but I believes it's your guys' opinions that count is it not?
    Anyway, I know that even though we never decided weather she'd actually be in the game, I know for sure it'll most likely be just a cameo role or a damsel-in-distress role, since no-one around here seems to like her enough to warrant anything bigger than that, weather it be her 1993 incarnation or her 1999 one. Anyways, I like her, and I like the sprites, and I should probably stop pratling so you'll pay attention to the image instead of the text this time :v:
     
  3. Rika Chou

    Rika Chou

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    Hmm,

    They don't seem professional looking enough to me, she's supposed to be shorter than Sonic (I think...), and she uses too few colors. Sorry...
     
  4. Witch Chao

    Witch Chao

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    And here I thought I was using too many.. =P Where do you think I should add more shading/highlights?

    In Sonic CD, she's barely Sonic's hieght, and in all of her other appearneces pre-SA, she's roughly about Sonic's size. Since I don't know what Sonic we're using yet(Maybe the ones on the previous page?), there's no real appropriate way to scale her correctly right now.

    It's okay for the critique. I was actually waiting for it =P, so I can fix whats wrong. By the way, what exactly do you mean be "professional"? Just the issues descirbed, or as a rate of the overall job?
     
  5. Ollie

    Ollie

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    I like that Robotnik, although the Colours of his shirt and Moustache blend together in a bad way. D=

    Also, if you reduce the colours for Amy and reduce her height, then it wouldn't look that bad actually. :)
     
  6. Phoebius

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    No, sorry but those Amy sprites don't look professionnal at all...
     
  7. Ollie

    Ollie

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    Mind if you explain to us, why? Me personally would find them pretty nice once the changes I mentioned above take place.
     
  8. Tweaker

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    Well, I don't, really, but Phoebius definitely needs to start elaborating when he shoots down pixel art more. It's extremely frustrating to just see "No, I like this better." without any sort of particular criticism or reasoning. Yes, I know it's because he's not a native English speaker and all that, but it doesn't make it any less unhelpful.
     
  9. Cinossu

    Cinossu

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    The main reasons, I'd say, is firstly for matching style - These remind me of those many "ritzified" or whatever it was styled sprites, where it's basically Sonic 3 with various changes to make it your own. - Second, I'd also say for colour use. There may be many colours used, just not of the same colour for shading itself, thus it loses details. - Third, size-wise it's all wrong. Amy, when using that style, is meant to be shorter than Sonic. Plus, if it looks as if Amy is just dangling from the side of that Egg-o-matic in some form of suspended standing. It looks very odd.
     
  10. Matwek

    Matwek

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  11. Thundertimi

    Thundertimi

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    That's why I always say things like "Thats not good" etc. It take me long time to type things, because I have to try avoid as much typing errors as possible ,also english isn't even my secondary language, so I have to think carefully, what im writing. But we trying to fix that, right Phobeus?
     
  12. Jayextee

    Jayextee

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    I DONE MAKED GAMES.
    As for the feedback thing, I can give two cents as to why there isn't deeper feedback; it seems to get ignored.

    I can remember early in the S2HD development, I was very vocal with my suggestions - which I would consider to be well-informed since I have a diploma in Multimedia Design and have worked as an illustrator (Yes, I am published. Nowhere big, though). Anyway, I would make these long, long, long posts about things which get overlooked; research into key themes and elements (Sort of like reverse-engineering a design, seeing how the original artist came about their eventual design solution).

    One such I remember was about a discussion on whether the badnik art for S2HD should be very precise vectoring, or looser stuff. I opted to the latter, and referenced a bunch of Felix The Cat cartoons, where he was running a loop-the-loop style curved tree, rolling, and some other things that Sonic's animation was obviously copied from. Well, you know; I got shot down by a few members, all like "I don't see what this has to do with remaking Sonic" -- it's exactly as I say, reverse designing in a sense.

    Art and design is a bit more abstract than code, and as such there can never be a 100% authorative reference (Such as the Sonic 2 source code for S2HD) -- but there are some hard-and-fast rules to follow for better general design.

    I'm seeing things like symmetrical design (The proposed title screens. Sorry to say this, but they look as amateurish as anything) and bad contrast and colour (In the case of the Amy sprites here). But, y'know. Past experience tells me that if I posted a textwall of constructive feedback, I'd get a half-response such as "Yeah, nice... but..." and then sheer frustration at having looked at, deconstructed, analysed and suggested improvements for a design or piece.

    Like I say, just two cents. Feedback now comes (Because I never learn) :)

    Amy's pink is WAY too pink for starters. Look at every single Amy sprite yet - the pink is quite pale, and pretty desaturated at that (I.E, closer to grey than your shade. Not exactly grey, but not practically bleeding the hue like yours, which would hurt the eyes against a fully blue background). There have been complaints about the size (Correct), but this alone won't make the amy sprites better. I would suggest, mainly, that the contrast be worked on. If you look at Eggman's shirt, there is a very distinct darker shade there on the arm, and yet the darker pink in Amy's spine is practically invisible. It looks flat.

    The same for all elements, actually.

    I know this would piss off some purists, but I would suggest going with her newer costume, for practical reasons. Why? The stripes on her skirt waste pixels. You're working at a very low resolution here, and getting the shading correct (And therefore better form, so it looks more volumetric and professional) is a better use of the few available pixels than a patterned skirt. Also, the pink/green/orange combo is a little jarring on the eyes -- as a secondary character, I wouldn't personally feel that complimentary colours are correct for Amy, and the more harmonious pink/red overall scheme (Which is more like colour harmony) is more muted, especially when contrasted against the blue/red complimentaries of Sonic himself.

    *sigh* tl;dr - Amy is too colourful.
     
  13. Here's an improved version of Robotnik in the "S4 Eggmobile".

    I removed the shading from the moustache.
     
  14. Ollie

    Ollie

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    I love the design of his Ship. It's so Robotnik like. :)

    Although, I did a bit of a touch up only a few pixel's different but they stuck out, to me personally, when I was looking at it closely. I've removed one pixel of shading from the back of his head and replaced the glasses from the Dark Grey to dark blue colours, to a Black and dark Grey colour. :)

    Meh, it's not much but I thought it might be useful.
     
  15. Tweaker

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    Seriously appreciating the detailed feedback from both Jay and Cinossu. Thanks for setting a good example for detailing exactly how to deliver constructive criticism towards work on this project. :)

    I agree—I never thought the sprites were particularly well done. My issue was how all Phoebius could do to shoot it down was say that they "don't look professional"; and honestly, I agree! The thing is, though, not all perspectives would unanimously see the issues with those sprites based on his feedback. That's why I strongly encourage detailed feedback with suggestions for improvement like our seasoned experts have been putting forth—it's the best way we can really help shape this project out to be the best way it can be.
     
  16. Armada

    Armada

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    I think a notice like: "THIS IS FOR ORIGINAL PIXEL ART! NO EDITS!" is probably in order. Seeing as we don't want some Sonic 2 and 3 edits standing out among custom character art adn whatnot. I can understand using edits to illustrate a concept, but it won't be up to snuff for a final submission.

    Also, Robotnik is teh sex. The Eggmobile has a good design.
     
  17. Matwek

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    Maybe something similar to the S2HD project could be used. When pixel art is posted in its various level topics it is considered to just be concept work, then once its been adjusted enough to fit the right style we move it somewhere else where we can store all the finalised bits and pieces for fine tuning.
    Also that way when it comes to actually producing a working demo all the pieces needed are organised and ready to use
     
  18. Witch Chao

    Witch Chao

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    Thanks for elaborating guys. I made some changes to her today. I may make even more:
    [​IMG]
    Compare old to new.
    The biggest problems seem to be the size and colors. I know she's not taller than Sonic, but it was a start :p. I shrank her by about 2 pixels (Making her skirt look tremendoulsy better). She's now as tall as Sonic 3's Sonic. I may be able to get away with chopping another couple pixels of her torso, but thats about as small as she's getting.
    I used the pink shades I hade and shaded the head a little more, and added some colors and some more shading to her shoes and skirt.

    And Jayextee's thing about Amy's pink strikes as interesting. I'm definatly not using Sonic CD"s Amy pink, but I'll look into fixing that up. Without even reading most of the new comments though, it looks like I'm improving.

    What's left seems to be fixing up the pink, maybe shrinking her again, fixing up her face area(Her eyes don't look "cute" enough to me and the mouth still looks weird.), and possibly giving Amy a new outfit(mabye not the SA, but something that may be more fashionable than a green polo on an orange tutu XP)
     
  19. Ollie

    Ollie

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    She also has really big feet. You might want to shrink those too. =P But hey, at least it's improving. :v: