German localisation website potentially leaks Sonic Colours Remaster

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MH MD, Apr 9, 2021.

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  1. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    I couldn't point out every area of 3D design in a single post. I just wanted to make a few points, and tried to highlight some of the positives even if I have a relatively negative opinion on the 3D in Colours. Seeing as you mentioned it though, Starlight Carnival 5 (not 6) is weird; it has a full 3D section at the end but also gives you the choice to skip the entire thing with the Hover Wisp. It's not like it's even a hidden shortcut or secret that you have to seek out. You're probably going to take this route because it's the level where the Green Wisp is first introduced, and it's handed to you right there.

    It's a lack of quantity and quality at the end of the day. As you pointed out, the 2D to 3D ratio is increased if you include the recycled acts. Like it or not, you have to play through those levels to clear the game and they're also included in the Egg Shuttle (arcade mode, essentially). You spend more time in 2D than 3D, and much more time in active 2D gameplay than in active 3D gameplay. Furthermore, the true bonus content is the Sonic Simulator, which is almost entirely 2D by design.

    I still don't want to see more 2D sections in the next Sonic game, whatever it is. 3D and 2D are different beasts, and it's tiring that 3D keeps getting the short end of the stick either by quantity, quality or both. I want a fully 3D game that actually plays like a 3D game. Mortar Canyon in Forces is fully 3D and to some extent that's refreshing. But like you said, it's crap. I'd rather another hybrid or fully 2D game than one that's fully 3D in the style of Forces and Colours, because that kind of 3D is so insubstantial.
     
  2. The Joebro64

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    Since we're on the topic of critiquing Colors (particularly in regards to 2D/3D)...

    I decided to take the time to rewatch this video and I think Johnny makes a lot of great points in it. I don't agree with him on everything (I don't think the platforming is as basic as he describes it) but overall I think he's right on the money - given that Colors was meant to be far more accessible for a wider audience, the increased emphasis on 2D and the less expansive 3D sections make sense. It was necessary for them to reach people who hadn't played a Sonic game before. It's a decision longtime Sonic fans like us clearly don't like, but for the guy who wants to get into 3D Sonic, like I did back in 2011? It's a great entry point. Also, the simplified 3D is obviously not as bad as Forces - Colors' 3D sections, y'know, actually have gameplay besides "moving in a straight line" in them.

    (Also I think Johnny makes a fantastic point when he points out that people who think Colors was a copy/rip-off of Mario Galaxy are insane and only basing it on the fact that both are set in space.)
     
  3. MH MD

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    Meanwhile, me, 11 years ago, just thought at it's time of release that the more basic 3D and automated drift\side step and abundance of 2D sections was just due to hardware limits compared to Unleashed and Generations after it, and nothing more than that.
     
  4. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    It was probably a hardware thing too. I do think Sonic Team could've pulled off some more elaborate 3D level design in Colors, but given that even the Xbox 360 and PS3 - which were far more powerful - struggled to run Unleashed at an acceptable frame rate (in some levels, like Jungle Joyride, the frame rate is absolutely abysmal, which is part of what makes the game so bad IMO), it probably influenced their decision to scale it back a bit.
     
  5. Blue Blood

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    I have a hard time understanding the "hardware limitations" argument because we'd already seen several 3D Sonic games on hardware similar or inferior to the Wii. The only issue that SEGA was really up against was the lack of buttons on the Wii remote (and despite supporting other inputs, they understandably wanted to make all options consistent). It would have been very difficult to pull off levels quite like those in Unleashed HD on the Wii, especially if they wanted to maintain the absolutely gorgeous visuals that Colours has. But Colours feels like it was intentionally designed the way it was. It's 3D design is much more similar to Unleashed Wii than Unleashed HD, and we know which of those two fared better with critics. I'm certain that they made the levels so bland and simplistic on purpose for creative reasons. And if they didn't... What the fuck is Forces' excuse?

    Whilst hardware limitations probably played a part in being unable to go all out in 3D boost gameplay in Colours, I think they wanted a much more basic game.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  6. BadBehavior

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    Even Forces did better with critics than Unleashed HD. Not even Classic Sonic in all its shitty glory tanked Forces score as hard as the Werehog did to Unleashed. Hardly any of them cared about the level design.

    And if our choice is wider 3D levels that destroy the framerate, and 60fps levels so narrow that not even Eggman on a diet could fit through them, then why haven't they tried anything else (that wasn't flagrant Mario Galaxy plagiarism)? Ironically for a company we accuse of never staying consistent and always experimenting, they never experiment or innovate to actually fix this series's problems.
     
  7. brandonj

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    Honestly I've always kind of liked the hybrid gameplay approach the boost games have but if they were to try doing it again they should do it in the style of Gens instead of something like Colors or Forces. I felt like Unleashed didn't really do enough with 2D since it was basically just a perspective shift like you've said before, and then with Colors they went too far in the opposite direction by almost completely segregating the design mentalities of 2D and 3D sections. I think Gens hit about the right balance of having the 2D sections feel relatively similar to the 3D ones in terms of design philosophy but then taking advantage of 2D space to create more layered and vertically-oriented layouts that are still designed in a way to accommodate for speed so you don't get overly bogged down with platforming like with Colors at times. I definitely get that a lot of people aren't really interested in having 2D gameplay in modern Sonic games at all but personally speaking I think it can add something to the experience if it's handled right. And even if it's handled like Colors I think it can still be fun to play, although I understand why you and others aren't really into it.
     
  8. Laura

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    Sorry if I'm going off topic a bit, but this is an accusation which I always found very annoying. Right after Boom and Lost World lots of people in the fandom criticised SEGA for not going back to the Boost formula and building upon Generations. But then when Forces' first gameplay was shown people immediately got annoyed about the fact they wen back to the Boost formula. They suddenly always hated Boost. Talk about mixed messages. It's stuff like this which makes me somewhat feel sorry for Sonic Team.

    And I'm not talking about the complaint that Forces was a step back from Generations. That's totally fair and I agree with it. I'm annoyed by the people who insisted that Sonic Team go back to Boost and refine it but were then suddenly angry that they just went back to Boost at all. I'm aware some people always hated Boost and never wanted to see it back and I at least respect the consistency there.
     
  9. MykonosFan

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    It doesn't seem particularly right to say that those two complaints came from the same people.
     
  10. Blue Blood

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    Thank you for saying it. Whenever someone talks about fans being unpleasable or accusing them off changing their minds like this, you can almost certainly reason that is different people.

    I didn't want to see the boost gameplay return after Generations and I was pleased that Lost World tried something different. The result was arse, but that didn't mean that I wanted Generations again but with worse controls, Colours-grade level design and a shitty custom character.

    But anyway, yeah, this is off topic. I think I'm out of things to say about Colours. I really want to know if this a straight port, enhanced port or remake.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  11. Laura

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    I do acknowledge that some people always wanted Boost to go away.

    But I think it's fair to say a large number of people changed their mind considering how the cultural zeitgeist has shifted from 'Sonic Team need to stick with Boost and stop experimenting' to 'Boost was always awful'.
     
  12. Xiao Hayes

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    I think saying those were the same people is unfair, but if each time it was the loudest voice Sega listened to, being the same people or not wouldn't have made a big difference, they would still be clueless at what to offer.
     
  13. Blue Blood

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    Sure would be nice if SEGA had some conviction and didn't change direction of the series between and sometimes during the development of every game. Of course things are going to go south and be inconsistent if they over react to the loudest audience voices everytime they make a decision regarding the games.
     
  14. Consider the fact that they pretty much always get shit no matter what direction they take, and it's kind of understandable.

    Sure, everyone who is shouting within the fanbase aren't the same, but it doesn't change the fact that people are still shouting. If Sega does one thing, some fans want another and cry about it. If Sega starts listening to them, then another set of fans begin shouting.

    It's a never-ending cycle. It doesn't matter what Sega does, somebody isn't going to be happy with it. That's the nature of the series now. At this point, Sega just need to say "Fuck it".
     
  15. Blue Spikeball

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    That's probably why Forces failed -- it tried to cater to everyone, resulting in a mediocre mishmash that didn't please anyone. Next game should pick a direction and stick to it.
     
  16. DigitalDuck

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    As I've been saying for years now, they should cater to everyone, but in separate games. Have games like Mania for classic fans, games like Unleashed/Colours/Generations for boost fans, and then either experiment or go back and build on the Adventure formula for other fans. Lots of people will buy all the games just because it's Sonic, and a specific target demographic will help boost (pun intended) sales. They've already established the Classic/Modern split - just roll (help I can't stop) with it.
     
  17. Probably not enough resources for all of that sadly. Sega's been making less money in recent years and haven't been putting much of it towards Sonic.

    Can't make a whole bunch of games without resources.


    Hell, even this supposed port is an example of that. A Sonic Colors port is one of the least expensive things they can do.
     
  18. Laura

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    I think it's okay to lose fans. I personally think they should abandon Boost and move onto another 3D formula. I enjoyed Generations a lot but I always thought even back then that the gameplay style was untenable. It's too resource intensive making those massive maps, especially if Forces is indicative of a downsized Sonic Team. I also just think it's a little dated now.

    So they'll probably lose some Boost fans if they do that but that's okay. It's normal for fans to feel alienated by a franchise and move onto something else.

    What they should do is keep 2D Mania style games going and make a fully 3D title.
     
  19. Pengi

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    Not every Mario game caters to the tastes of every Mario fan. But it doesn't really matter, because they're all great games regardless. The game just needs to be good, first and foremost, all other concerns are secondary.
     
  20. MykonosFan

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    All this said, we're veering back into "What should SEGA do with Sonic" and not "Sonic Colors is maybe getting ported" talk. We probably don't have much more to say about this until if/when it gets announced, which is okay! But let's try to keep this from turning into the other topic that got locked.
     
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