German localisation website potentially leaks Sonic Colours Remaster

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MH MD, Apr 9, 2021.

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  1. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Even if you count the optional challenges, I'm pretty sure Unleashed has more 3d than 2d, as the Werehog gameplay is 3d only. And I recall even the hedgehog challenges and optional acts having plenty of 3d.
     
  2. Hanging Waters

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    This may be an unpopular opinion, but I don't find Super Sonic super duper fun to play in any game. The first time you beat all the special stages and unlock it, it's a big deal. As a kid especially, it's absurdly funny to just blast through every stage in Sonic 2. Plus, since he is so hard to obtain for a lot of people, it's a good end goal to reach for. And as soon as you reach that end goal, the reward is a much easier main game.

    After that though I've always felt like it just detracts from the game as it's intended to be played. Unlike a separate character with their own abilities that can get through each level in their own unique way, Super Sonic is Sonic's toolkit and movement values if they were set to overdrive.

    Without getting off-topic though, as this applies to Colors I thought Super Sonic was fun enough. Mostly because I think of him as a little easter egg you can screw around with. It's interesting hearing everyone think of ways to integrate Super into the game, because I agree his implementation as an actual character (not just a funny easter egg) feels lackluster imo.
     
  3. Blue Blood

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    Super Sonic disabling the Wisps in Colours always felt really cheap. The levels were built with the expectation that you would use Colour Powers regularly, so not having the ability to do so with Super meant that you missed a lot of what the levels had to offer. Worst of all though was the double jump issue. Sonic's aerial control in Colours is really pathetic, which makes basic platforming difficult. That's the only reason that he has a double jump to begin with; the extra height isn't as much of a help as the ability to instantly change your momentum.
     
  4. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    I honestly thought Super Sonic was perfect in Colors? He was ridiculously overpowered and just as broken as I'd expect Super Sonic to be. He's bundles of fun to blast through levels with, especially Sweet Mountain and Astroid Coaster.
     
  5. ZackNAttack

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    Yeah, when I have Sonic go Super, I get the feeling that I'm missing out on the level, so I typically end up going through the game without going Super. I feel like I not only miss out on the level challenges when Super, but also the music itself due to its replacement with either the Sonic 2 Super theme or the invincibility theme.
     
  6. Wildcat

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    They should introduce a super wisp form. (Black Knight - Excalibur, Secret Rings - Dark Spines)

    I really liked how the Wisps join Sonic in the final boss to deliver the last hit. Like I and others mentioned they should include an extra boss fight (saw someone said Mother Wisp from the DS version) but have it require every power. So they all combine and turn him into Rainbow or Kaleidoscope Sonic...I guess he’d look similar to Hyper Sonic.

    As for the title I have a feeling the word Ultimate is the name of a Collection and each game will naturally be referred to as the Ultimate version. Still they could give it a subtitle.

    Sonic Colors: Prism Blast
     
  7. Vanishing Vision

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    Something that would be really cool for Super Sonic would be if instead of switching the music to a different track, it switched to a "super mix" of the zone music, a faster, livelier arrangement of the song with a new melody line.
     
  8. Overlord

    Overlord

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    Not something really relevant to Colours specifically though, is it? No Sonic game has done that.
     
  9. Dark Sonic

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    Sonic Rush Adventure had unique invincibility themes per level. It was the only game to ever do that and I think more of them should. Super music gets so repetitive.

    EDIT: I guess Sonic Rush did this too. Cool detail Rush series.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
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  10. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

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    The first Sonic Rush did this too I think.
    Outside of official games, Sonic After The Sequel slightly changed the pitch of the music when you turn super and it was kinda neat.
     
  11. Blue Blood

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    Rush did it too, just basing invincibility theme on the percussion. That was better than Rush Adventure's versions, which sounded more like Speed Shoes. Either way, neither is quite as much as a proper, full length remix. Or even something like the added drums you get with Yoshi in various Mario games.

    Colours' Super music is an annoyingly short loop. I look forward to a mod in the inevitable PC version to disable it, because I don't think that it'll be anywhere near the list of unlikely changes that SEGA will make for the Ultimate version.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
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  12. Venom Snake

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    Unleashed's DLC was actually really heavy on 3D stages, there were a ton of lap-based 3D levels, as well as just having entirely 3D levels in general.
    Case in point: Arid Sands Act 3 was a sandbox-y treasure hunting stage:
    I personally really liked all the DLC stages, it actually made me even more fond of the game, as I had never played any of them until recently, I think even the werehog DLC stages were pretty good.
     
  13. Vanishing Vision

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    Oh no, I'm saying that would be cool for Super Sonic in general, seeing as others were mentioning their disinterest in Super Sonic in all games due to the music being replaced.
     
  14. I think what overlord means is, maybe we should try to keep the Sonic Colors thread on the topic of sonic colors? I could be wrong, and it's far from my place to moderate, so lemme just see myself out here.
     
  15. Overlord

    Overlord

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    This is what I meant, yes.

    Regarding Rush & Rush Adventure - fair enough, I may well have forgotten that the former did that, it's been years since I finished it.
     
  16. TheInvisibleSun

    TheInvisibleSun

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    Sonic ReColors
     
  17. Xiao Hayes

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    Why not Sonic Palette? :V

    Something (silly?) came to my mind the other day: What if they've decided to remake it so the whole game is 2D with classic gameplay? The original was a game that appealed to classic fans more than Sonic 4, and Mania was a big success.
     
  18. brandonj

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    Ngl I'm actually pretty hyped for this if it ends up actually being a thing; Colors is still probably one of my favorite games in the series and I'd really like to have a boost game that isn't Forces on the Switch.

    Also, some of the talk about the game's 3D/2D ratio earlier in the thread motivated me to finish something i started working on a while back: actually crunching the numbers and getting an idea of how much of the game is really comprised of 2D sections. I made a simple doc that breaks down the length of every 2D and 3D section in the game (aside from Sonic Simulator and boss fights for the time being) based on a "casual" run of the game, i.e. taking the main route in most stages without speedrunning through or slowing down to explore heavily. Here are the ultimate results of that effort:

    23 minutes and 15 seconds of the game is spent in 3D sections (which includes stuff like drifting and quickstep sections FYI)
    29 minutes and 40 seconds of the game is spent in 2D sections

    So unsurprisingly the game is mostly 2D, although it's actually a bit closer than I was expecting. What I did find a bit interesting was how the ratio changes if you take the filler acts out of the equation:

    21 minutes and 15 seconds of the non-filler stages are spent in 3D sections
    15 minutes and 35 seconds of the non-filler stages are spent in 2D sections

    So if Sonic Team had stuck to the original game structure it would have actually been mostly 3D sections after all, with a ratio that's closer to the stages in Unleashed and Gens.

    Here's the doc as well if anyone wants to take a look.
    And if people find this interesting I may try doing this for the other Modern games as well, just to sort of set the record straight.
     
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  19. Blue Blood

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    So I think that what's perhaps more telling than just the raw time doesn't in 2D and 3D is exactly what is involved in the 2D and 3D sections. Your analysis is interesting @brandonj, but it only tells part of the story. The best way to describe what I'm saying would be to include some videos. Obviously these videos aren't played under any sort of analytical conditions such as yours, but I think that possibly makes them more true to an actual first playthrough of the game.

    Tropical Resort 1:

    The first ~50 seconds are 3D, but it's straight line that you barely have to tilt the analogue stick to navigate. For all that it matters, the only thing that you need or would even want to do here is go straight. You can jump on to the grind rail to get a Red Ring, and that's about it. The final ~30 seconds is a 3-rail/quick
    -step section; Sonic moves automatically, and you simply make him switch lanes. There's almost nothing to do here.

    Comparatively, look at the 2D section between these two 3D sections. There is a lot more going on here. It's the opening level of the game and on your first time through it you won't have the ability to use any Wisps. In that case you'll be able to choose briefly between a faster grind rail on the upper route or rings and balloons on the lower route. There's a trick ramp too, similarly splitting the path into high and low routes again (not that you're in any danger of failing the "mash A" QTE).

    It doesn't end there though, because in repeat playthroughs the lower section of the 2D portion opens up completely with the use of the Drill. The Drill is already pretty involved gameplay as it is, and it opens up more options in the 2D section. 3 of the 5 Red Rings are in the 2D area, and 2 require the use of the Drill. By comparison there's only one Laser in the opening 3D section and it's used to do exactly what the boost would already accomplish.

    Starlight Carnival 1:

    So you actually point this one out in your spreadsheet, putting the first 3D section into inverted commas. It's 50 seconds of auto running in 3D, with a brief bit of quick stepping and a couple of homing attacks.

    As soon as it switches to 2D, you get a much more extensive section of platforming. There are multiple routes to explore, wall jumps, enemies and obstacles to consider and multiple chances to use the Cube and Spikes Wisps. What the player is doing here is actually gameplay. The game is by no means "playing itself" like it just was in the 3D section.

    Move on to the next 3D section and it's... A minute of auto-running and quick-stepping. I'll be honest, there's nothing inherently wrong with a bit of auto-running and quick-stepping. But it accounts for such a sizable portion of what Colours calls 3D gameplay. It's more akin to Sonic Dash than typical 3D gameplay where the player actually has full control. What's more is that all the player has to do here is quick-step mindlessly. Heck, that's what they're encouraged to do. Quick-stepping into the Motobugs, regardless of whether or not you're boosting, will replenish your boost gauge. And quick-stepping regardless will net your 1000 points each time simply for pressing left or right. It's so mindless. This minute or so of "technically 3D" gameplay has all the involvement of button mashing your way through a cutscene to skip it. It's the same story for the rest of the level. You do almost nothing in 3D and don't play much until you hit the 2D sections.

    It's one again very similar in Aquarium Park 1. A lot of this level takes part underwater, making use of the Drill, tubes and Sonic's endless jumping ability. There's no 3D gameplay in the water at all. The opening 3D section is just like Tropical Resort and the second one is quick-stepping.

    Aquarium Park Act 6 finally gives you some involved 3D gameplay, starting just after 1:42 here:

    It lasts for well over a minute in proper, fully playable 3D where you aren't just running down an empty, flat path.

    Up until that point though, the entire level is 2D, largely underwater again. And the end of the level is again 2D.

    And here's Planet Wisp:

    What even is that opening, 40-second 3D section? You have full control over Sonic here, although your ability to boost is replaced with the drift. There are almost no obstacles, there's one branching path (boost > homing attack > quick-step) and other than that it's just incredibly bland. This is fully 3D gameplay, yes. And it's not even just technically-3D because you have full control of Sonic here and need to steer left and right rather than just go straight. But it's dreadfully shallow. Compare what's going on here to the 2D sections later in the level. I'll deride the 2D design in Colours for being blocky and un-Sonicy until the cows come home, but there's so much more to do in 2D. Once again, the Wisps in this level (Rocket and Spikes) are exclusive to 2D sections. There's a 3D section later on in the level that is... It's a quick-step section yet again. Granted it's a more involved one this time and isn't an auto-runner either, but it might as well be automatic for all the difference it makes.

    Asteroid Coaster is also pretty fine when it comes to 3D. It's similar to Aquarium Park 6. I'm trying to be fair here, and that means that I'm trying not to just cherry-pick what I'm singling out as proper 3D versus 3D-by-technicality.

    A non-Colours example would be Guardian Rock in Forces. The entire level is 2D up until the very end when it becomes a 3D lane runner. Would you call it a partially 3D level? I'm not being facetious here; I'm genuinely asking. Because I wouldn't. It's 2D, followed by a scripted lane-runner. It's about as 3D as Plant Kingdom in Rush Adventure; that level ends with a brief 3D grinding section where you just have to hop between 3 rails. That's 3D gameplay only by technicality. In Colours there are so many 3D areas where all they're is to do is run in a straight line on an open path. That's more like 1D gameplay. And so many other 3D areas are automatic.

    Have I made my point come across clearly and do you understand what I'm trying to get at? Do you agree with me at all?

    Most of the 3D gameplay in Colours is either automated to one extent or another, whilst the times when the player is more actively engaged in the game is when it shifts it 2D. The 3D in Colours is mostly a very passive experience. You don't get the depth navigating a 3D environment because the game doesn't let you. Either you don't have full control of Sonic (Starlight Carnival), or you do have full control but there's absolutely nothing for you to do with that control the path is a wide open lane with no obstacles (Tropical Resort, Planet Wisp). Very rarely does the game use 3D space and controls effectively. Sonic Colours has 3D, but it's almost never a 3D platformer. A lot of its 3D sections don't even involve any 3D gameplay.

    I would need to replay Generations and Unleashed to refresh my perception of those games in my mind. They hit a lot of the same beats at Colours, including boosting through corridors, lane-running and having most of their slower platforming in 2D areas. But the 3D gameplay is much, much, more involved than it ever is in Colours (Green Hill excluded). And I'm not going to point to an easy target like Seaside Hill or Sky Sanctuary to prove my point here. Instead, have a look at the relatively unexceptional Arid Sands:



    You have full control over Sonic for that entire level. You need to makes effective use of the quick step or steering to line Sonic up in 3D, with no arbitrary distinction between different types of 3D areas. There are auto-running sections elsewhere in the game, but they're not in almost every level. There's also much more than just auto-running/grinding 3D sections. In the opening area and throughout the rest of the level, you can jump, homing attack, light-dash and steer to hit different paths and optimise your route. None of that exists in Colours. There's not a huge distinction between what the player does in 2D and 3D. It's more of a perspective shift, rather than a full gameplay shift as in Colours.

    tldr: trying to time the amount of gameplay spent in 2D versus 3D isn't representative of what the gameplay actually involves.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  20. brandonj

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    Yeah that's definitely a fair point, while i do like Colors i don't disagree that a lot of the 3D is ultimately pretty basic (although there's some other bits of 3D design i liked that you didn't mention like the 3D platforming at the end of Starlight Carnival 6 and the platforming and path-splitting that show up here and there in Sweet Mountain). I think part of the point of showing how much 3D (or i guess pseudo-3D) there really is that the lack of quantity isn't really the problem like a lot of people seem to think; it's more the lack of substance in much of it. I know that's obvious to some people but i do see a lot of people that seem to think that being in 3D is a virtue in of itself regardless of quality, like the folks that think Mortar Canyon is the best stage in Forces despite the fact that it's boost-to-win and poorly designed even by Forces standards.
     
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